Why do LGLO/MCGLOs follow NPHC practices?

[Little32]

One point of commonality would be the experience as African descended people in a world that is still very much governed by notions of white supremacy, even as that notion has been disproved again and again. While that experience is not exactly the same the world over, it creates similar modes of oppression that engender similar sorts of resistance creating a sense of commonality and global community.

Also, to believe that just because Africans were brought forcibly to this continent that they left behind all things that made them culturally unique as Africans is generally wrong-headed. Aspects of African culture, in the form of religion, cuisine, familial relations and ways of thinking about family, among others traveled with the Africans on those ships. Here, those cultural practices continued, while being influenced both by indigenous and Euramerican cultural practices (and in some places Asian as well--though I am less versed in those intersections) to create aspects of African American culture, which continue to thrive today.

I could pull out some citations for you, but you would probably still tell me that my lived experience along with my expertise in these areas don't hold water.

[tld221]

did i just get e-smacked?!

So youre saying, for all i know, i may not necessarily BE from Africa. Since i can't trace it and all... Shoot, we may be related. I could be German, from many generations back. What you think EW?

On a serious note (since i believe you want us to take you as such), there are some African-Americans that identify as "Black" for reasons you mentioned above. However, to deny ANY connections between Black people today (and that's not just here in America, but Blacks everywhere) and those of Africa IS a smack in the face. Our foods and religions, the way we dress, talk, dance, etc CAN be traced to different regions of Africa. Of course there is just as much of those cultural aspects that come from being in America, but there is a reason why the way I would identify with being American would differ with your reasons for identifying with being American.

ETA: Little32 pretty much said what I wanted to say, a little more eloquently of course.

[Little32]

Originally Posted by tld221

ETA: Little32 pretty much said what I wanted to say, a little more eloquently of course.

*Blushes* Gee, thanks.

[DSTRen13]

Originally Posted by Elephant Walk

Prove it.
I have absolutely no connections with my German/English/French/Dutch relatives and many of my ancestors came to this country long after yours likely did.

You don't feel like you have any connections to Europe and your European heritage? You don't see how it impacts you and your life here and now?

From what you've said on this board (that you've been to Germany, that your family are fairly recent immigrants), that seems really hard for me to understand. Maybe it's just a personal thing.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by Elephant Walk

It's a selective observation which provides an example to a much grander observation.

No and aren't you the guy who always has something to say when I discuss race, even going so far as to ask if I really believe race exists? Yeah, your experience is selective observation at best.

And I have nothing to "prove" to someone who thinks that a selective observation of a few black German "friends" (it wasn't like you were conducting qualitative research and directed observation, btw) for almost a year trumps the generations of African diasporic relations, historical and biographical accounts, alliances, organizations and pan-African summits, and qualitative and quantitative research.

I shall treat you just like anyone else who has had an experience but has nothing else to go based on: Thank you for sharing, now run along before you miss the fraternity tiers discussions that require your knowledge and expertise.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by Little32

I could pull out some citations for you, but you would probably still tell me that my lived experience along with my expertise in these areas don't hold water.

He's not the citations type. Save them for real discourse.

[rhoyaltempest]

This guy has gone from being annoying to being downright comical. I'm finding it quite funny now that someone on the outside looking in would tell a group of people that they have no connection to their heritage (just because he doesn't feel a connection to his) despite the fact that he is not and could not live their cultural experiences. And he continues to go on and on which suggests that he REALLY believes what he's so very WRONG WRONG WRONG about.

At first I thought he was just trying to be annoying but now I think he really does THINK he knows what he's talking about. Wow. Just when you thought you'd heard it all, gc is there to entertain.

Let's move on though because people like Elephant Walk love to wallow in ignorance. The whole point in networking with other people (via the internet or elsewhere) is to get varying perspectives, viewpoints, and testimonies, not to define things (especially an entire group of people) by a few examples in your personal life.

[Elephant Walk]

Originally Posted by rhoyaltempest

This guy has gone from being annoying to being downright comical. I'm finding it quite funny now that someone on the outside looking in would tell a group of people that they have no connection to their heritage (just because he doesn't feel a connection to his) despite the fact that he is not and could not live their cultural experiences.

You don't seem to get it. Heritage is not important. It doesn't tell you where you're from and it sure as hell doesn't tell you where your going. It simply tells you your geneolgy. Which is a very unimportant, masturbatory exercise.

I'm saying that you don't have the same connection to your heritage as other blacks across the world have. That there is no legitimate Pan-African commonality. The black Haitians practice Voodoo as it came over from Africa. Do you practice voodoo? That was a religion. Perhaps, your christian? Doesn't sound too African to me (perhaps northeast Africa, but few of the American ancestors originated from there...and even then, that's Coptic Christian). The blacks across Europe don't seem to feel the same inferiority complex of whites as blacks in America. Hell, they were more scared of their own race slaughtering or enslaving them, which is why they left that beautiful hellhole.

I would love to see some evidence of African traditions as practiced across the world. That is, they happen in the United States/Europe/China/South America. I simply don't think you'll find it.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by Elephant Walk

I'm saying that you don't have the same connection to your heritage as other blacks across the world have. That there is no legitimate Pan-African commonality.

Either discuss LGLO/MCGLOs following NPHC practices or go back to discussing IFC tiers in another thread.

[BlueNYC2]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

Either discuss LGLO/MCGLOs following NPHC practices or go back to discussing IFC tiers in another thread.

lol...burn!!!

GAME OVER MAN!!! GAME OVER!!!

[fantASTic]

Originally Posted by preciousjeni

Due to some legal issues that came up, I'm not really at liberty to discuss this situation. But, suffice it to say, I am 100% certain that they were deliberately infringing on Theta Nu Xi.

If that's the case, then good - you definitely do have the right to be upset with them, and take them to legal action. As to Ch2tf: see what one of your national officers wrote above. This is part of the reason I said what I did - you aren't willing to step out and prove it, or say anything besides "We are sure! But we will NOT tell you how!" Of course, if it's private, it's private - but if you won't explain why, then you lose the right to use it as an example of an infringement.

Again, what I was talking about was organizational. You're talking about "the NPHC." And, I don't want to delve too far into it, but ALL of our organizations are incorporated and NPHC organizations do not all officially use the term "aspirant." I realize these are simply examples you used, but you seem to be missing my point.
See the post from rhoyaltempest that I quoted below this one, and then explain to me why your opinion in this thread (ie, that you have never stolen anything from anyone, and your organization, including what I mentioned earlier in this thread, is completely accurate...yet, in the thread "Incorporated" from a week or two ago, you admitted that you took that tradition.

Given what you've posted thus far in this thread, I wouldn't expect you to understand why a non-DST DeltaDiva would raise eyebrows.

I can see that. What I also see is that, judging by YOUR posts, you have no conception of the idea that NPCs also have something to offer, and that many of us are part of organizations that are well over a hundred years old. Frankly, I have no problem with DSTs calling themselves a "DeltaDiva". What I DO have the problem with is your idea that ONLY a DST has that right...because (surprise!) there are actually other organizations out there with Delta as an identifying letter.

Originally Posted by rhoyaltempest

I can appreciate your responses and explanations regarding how you feel about your org's Incorporation but IMO your org (like many others today) stresses the "Innnnnnnnncorporated" (and did so initially) because NPHC orgs traditionally do and people think it's cool, as I'm sure your founders did. And there's nothing wrong with this but...let's be real.

I agree - let's be real.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by fantASTic

Frankly, I have no problem with DSTs calling themselves a "DeltaDiva". What I DO have the problem with is your idea that ONLY a DST has that right...because (surprise!) there are actually other organizations out there with Delta as an identifying letter.

c'mon now...you get the point...stop protesting just to protest.

ETA: I've always disliked the "Delta Diva" association for some reason (I'm not annoyed by other "diva" references, including its origin). But I know that many people who are familiar with the NPHC would think DST rather than Tri-Delt if they saw "Delta Diva" or "Divastating Delta" username. Just like there's a Kappa on here named G-Kue 1911 (*waving*) and ladygreek commented on how organizationally ambiguous his username his. If it was G-Que 1911, which there is an Omega who goes by that, he'd possibly be an Omega as far as we're concerned.

All that is neither here nor there because we were never talking about policing people as if opinions translate to anything more than opinions. We're talking about commonly held associations. I still agree with you and rhoyaltempest about INNNNNNNNcorporated, despite what preciousjeni says.

[CULater]

When I see orgs align their traditions and rituals towards NPHC, it could means a couple of things.

1) They see the similarities in why NPHC was founded with their own beliefs for why their own organizations need to be founded (i.e. LTA was founded to provide support for the increasing # of latinas in higher education and to help counter the traditional roles commonly accepted)

2) They wanted to be more community-based driven, in providing and addressing specific needs of a specific community (in general NPHC are geared towards Afrian American/Black communities, while IFC/NPC aren't really geared towards a specifc community, maybe Jewish, but most were from music groups or other book groups, etc)


3) They received help from NPHC to be founded (i.e. SLB, LUL)

4) Conforming to the current social Greek communities at their school. They wanted to be more similar to NPHC than say a business fraternity. They were more likely to be accepted if their traditions and rituals were something that was familiar to NPHC orgs. Furthermore, a lot of the councils have specific requirements related to NPHC activities (for example, participating in a greek step show, or else you pay a fine or another penalty)

5) NPHC traditions are great recruitment tools.

6) Documentation - a lot of times before internet, it is hard to know who to credit for what ritual. Maybe they saw an older LGLO or MCGLO do it, and thought it relevant as well to their own.

7) some of their members started to do it, and it caught on and became a ritual/tradition.

Personally, I hope many of the organizations that have recently been founded have done thorough research. I know for us personally, back in the 80s when we started to socialize more with NPHC and saw them stepping and strolling, we researched the purpose of them and had to decide if those traditions would be relevant for our organization's mission/identity/goals, and why or why not. I feel our reasons justified, but for others, it could be different, and everyone has a different perspective, so I respect thatb(or at least try to).

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by CULater

5) NPHC traditions are great recruitment tools.

yikes

[preciousjeni]

Originally Posted by fantASTic

See the post from rhoyaltempest that I quoted below this one, and then explain to me why your opinion in this thread (ie, that you have never stolen anything from anyone, and your organization, including what I mentioned earlier in this thread, is completely accurate...yet, in the thread "Incorporated" from a week or two ago, you admitted that you took that tradition.

I was responding to your comment here:

Originally Posted by fantASTic

I do find it funny, though, when a MCGLO gets angry because another MCGLO is 'copying' them, but they do things like say, "XYZ INCORPORATED!", put on step shows and do other things that are definitely traditionally associated with the BGLOs.

Organizations develop traditions on top of other traditions, as I mentioned in the incorporated thread. Every Greek organization in this country has borrowed from a previously founded organization, INCLUDING Theta Nu Xi. I do not dispute that. However, that's very different from "stealing" an organization-specific tradition; by that I mean going in and saying, "I like that from Alpha Sigma Tau and I like that from Delta Sigma Theta" as we all have our unique identities. If you look at the way we carry out Greek traditions, you will find that there are differences from the way that NPCs, BGLOs, LGLOs, etc. do things. My organization participates in Greek traditions, but we do not "steal" other organizations' identities.

And, I'll say this here too...my organization is composed of women who were brought up in various Greek traditions. They carry these traditions into their membership in Theta Nu Xi. That is the nature of a multicultural sorority.

...judging by YOUR posts, you have no conception of the idea that NPCs also have something to offer, and that many of us are part of organizations that are well over a hundred years old.

Whoa! Where have you ever seen me make any such assertion?