Why do LGLO/MCGLOs follow NPHC practices?

[Elephant Walk]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

"Some of my best friends are black Germans. SO I KNOW!!!"

You're incorrect about your assertions. Period.

Prove it.

At this point you'll generally sulk off and call me an idiot with no way to back it up. For you to believe that black Americans with absolutely no connection to Africa (...how long's it been...7 generations?) has commonalities in terms of personality or otherwise (besides being human) you would have to believe in nature over nurture. That you are born with innate tendencies that span cultural lines. If you believe that, then you're laughable to begin with. I have absolutely no connections with my German/English/French/Dutch relatives and many of my ancestors came to this country long after yours likely did.

You're wrong.

You went from being an expert on every Greek system to being the expert on German blacks and Pan-African relations just because you spent almost a year in Germany? Your selective observations don't matter to the issue at hand. Give it a rest.

Your ability to manipulate what I said is mindboggling. It's a selective observation which provides an example to a much grander observation.

So Italian-Americans, X-generations removed from Italy, for example, absolutely do not (and should not) have any connection to Italy. Or anyone who has been in America for many a generations yet their ancestors originating from another country?

*smack*

To begin with, many if not most "African"-Americans have no idea what country they came from. Even further, it wouldn't matter because the country was not important because it only reflected colonial boundaries and not tribal boundaries. Tribal boundaries are a far more important way of discovering your ancestors histories because it would lead you to what sort of foods they ate and the religions they practiced. Furthermore, Italian-Americans who are proud of their heritage tend to be recent immigrants (early 1900's), just a few generations removed from their homeland. Whereas "African"-Americans are what...seven generations removed? More? My Grandma regularly spoke German in the house. Of what connection do I have to Germany? I've never lived there. My German is terrible.

[Little32]

One point of commonality would be the experience as African descended people in a world that is still very much governed by notions of white supremacy, even as that notion has been disproved again and again. While that experience is not exactly the same the world over, it creates similar modes of oppression that engender similar sorts of resistance creating a sense of commonality and global community.

Also, to believe that just because Africans were brought forcibly to this continent that they left behind all things that made them culturally unique as Africans is generally wrong-headed. Aspects of African culture, in the form of religion, cuisine, familial relations and ways of thinking about family, among others traveled with the Africans on those ships. Here, those cultural practices continued, while being influenced both by indigenous and Euramerican cultural practices (and in some places Asian as well--though I am less versed in those intersections) to create aspects of African American culture, which continue to thrive today.

I could pull out some citations for you, but you would probably still tell me that my lived experience along with my expertise in these areas don't hold water.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by Little32

I could pull out some citations for you, but you would probably still tell me that my lived experience along with my expertise in these areas don't hold water.

He's not the citations type. Save them for real discourse.

[rhoyaltempest]

This guy has gone from being annoying to being downright comical. I'm finding it quite funny now that someone on the outside looking in would tell a group of people that they have no connection to their heritage (just because he doesn't feel a connection to his) despite the fact that he is not and could not live their cultural experiences. And he continues to go on and on which suggests that he REALLY believes what he's so very WRONG WRONG WRONG about.

At first I thought he was just trying to be annoying but now I think he really does THINK he knows what he's talking about. Wow. Just when you thought you'd heard it all, gc is there to entertain.

Let's move on though because people like Elephant Walk love to wallow in ignorance. The whole point in networking with other people (via the internet or elsewhere) is to get varying perspectives, viewpoints, and testimonies, not to define things (especially an entire group of people) by a few examples in your personal life.

[Elephant Walk]

Originally Posted by rhoyaltempest

This guy has gone from being annoying to being downright comical. I'm finding it quite funny now that someone on the outside looking in would tell a group of people that they have no connection to their heritage (just because he doesn't feel a connection to his) despite the fact that he is not and could not live their cultural experiences.

You don't seem to get it. Heritage is not important. It doesn't tell you where you're from and it sure as hell doesn't tell you where your going. It simply tells you your geneolgy. Which is a very unimportant, masturbatory exercise.

I'm saying that you don't have the same connection to your heritage as other blacks across the world have. That there is no legitimate Pan-African commonality. The black Haitians practice Voodoo as it came over from Africa. Do you practice voodoo? That was a religion. Perhaps, your christian? Doesn't sound too African to me (perhaps northeast Africa, but few of the American ancestors originated from there...and even then, that's Coptic Christian). The blacks across Europe don't seem to feel the same inferiority complex of whites as blacks in America. Hell, they were more scared of their own race slaughtering or enslaving them, which is why they left that beautiful hellhole.

I would love to see some evidence of African traditions as practiced across the world. That is, they happen in the United States/Europe/China/South America. I simply don't think you'll find it.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by Elephant Walk

I'm saying that you don't have the same connection to your heritage as other blacks across the world have. That there is no legitimate Pan-African commonality.

Either discuss LGLO/MCGLOs following NPHC practices or go back to discussing IFC tiers in another thread.

[BlueNYC2]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

Either discuss LGLO/MCGLOs following NPHC practices or go back to discussing IFC tiers in another thread.

lol...burn!!!

GAME OVER MAN!!! GAME OVER!!!

[CULater]

When I see orgs align their traditions and rituals towards NPHC, it could means a couple of things.

1) They see the similarities in why NPHC was founded with their own beliefs for why their own organizations need to be founded (i.e. LTA was founded to provide support for the increasing # of latinas in higher education and to help counter the traditional roles commonly accepted)

2) They wanted to be more community-based driven, in providing and addressing specific needs of a specific community (in general NPHC are geared towards Afrian American/Black communities, while IFC/NPC aren't really geared towards a specifc community, maybe Jewish, but most were from music groups or other book groups, etc)


3) They received help from NPHC to be founded (i.e. SLB, LUL)

4) Conforming to the current social Greek communities at their school. They wanted to be more similar to NPHC than say a business fraternity. They were more likely to be accepted if their traditions and rituals were something that was familiar to NPHC orgs. Furthermore, a lot of the councils have specific requirements related to NPHC activities (for example, participating in a greek step show, or else you pay a fine or another penalty)

5) NPHC traditions are great recruitment tools.

6) Documentation - a lot of times before internet, it is hard to know who to credit for what ritual. Maybe they saw an older LGLO or MCGLO do it, and thought it relevant as well to their own.

7) some of their members started to do it, and it caught on and became a ritual/tradition.

Personally, I hope many of the organizations that have recently been founded have done thorough research. I know for us personally, back in the 80s when we started to socialize more with NPHC and saw them stepping and strolling, we researched the purpose of them and had to decide if those traditions would be relevant for our organization's mission/identity/goals, and why or why not. I feel our reasons justified, but for others, it could be different, and everyone has a different perspective, so I respect thatb(or at least try to).

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by Elephant Walk

You don't seem to get it. Heritage is not important. It doesn't tell you where you're from and it sure as hell doesn't tell you where your going. It simply tells you your geneolgy. Which is a very unimportant, masturbatory exercise.

I'm saying that you don't have the same connection to your heritage as other blacks across the world have. That there is no legitimate Pan-African commonality. The black Haitians practice Voodoo as it came over from Africa. Do you practice voodoo? That was a religion. Perhaps, your christian? Doesn't sound too African to me (perhaps northeast Africa, but few of the American ancestors originated from there...and even then, that's Coptic Christian). The blacks across Europe don't seem to feel the same inferiority complex of whites as blacks in America. Hell, they were more scared of their own race slaughtering or enslaving them, which is why they left that beautiful hellhole.

I would love to see some evidence of African traditions as practiced across the world. That is, they happen in the United States/Europe/China/South America. I simply don't think you'll find it.

"Your name is Toby, what's your name?" lashes whip
"Kunta Kente" barely an utterance
"Massa gave you a name, it's a nice name and you are going to take it" lashes more whips
"Kunta Kente" barely an utterance, again
"What's your name?" lashes more whips, as Kunte Kente falls to the ground...
"Toby" barely audible
"Ey, that's a good [expletive deleted]..."


What we think when you say to us that we have no connection to Africa...

Thanks for exacting your psychological determinants upon us! We sho do appreciate it Massa!!!

[CULater]

african traditions, just like any other, were often formed to cope with our environment or increase our chances of reproduction. similar to evolution. as such, we'll see similarities and differences among practices and traditions in not just human, but all species.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by preciousjeni

She might honestly not know about "Diva." She refers back to "Delta."

That's a good point.

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

"Your name is Toby, what's your name?" lashes whip
"Kunta Kente" barely an utterance
"Massa gave you a name, it's a nice name and you are going to take it" lashes more whips
"Kunta Kente" barely an utterance, again
"What's your name?" lashes more whips, as Kunte Kente falls to the ground...
"Toby" barely audible
"Ey, that's a good [expletive deleted]..."


What we think when you say to us that we have no connection to Africa...

Thanks for exacting your psychological determinants upon us! We sho do appreciate it Massa!!!

You will forget about Africa, I say!!!

Originally Posted by CULater

african traditions, just like any other, were often formed to cope with our environment or increase our chances of reproduction. similar to evolution. as such, we'll see similarities and differences among practices and traditions in not just human, but all species.

Come again?

[CULater]

Originally Posted by Elephant Walk

I would love to see some evidence of African traditions as practiced across the world. That is, they happen in the United States/Europe/China/South America. I simply don't think you'll find it.

answering this statement....

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by CULater

answering this statement....

Oh, we're back to him again.

Well, can you explain how you answered that question, then? Or maybe begin by explaining how you interpreted his question? Please.

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

You will forget about Africa, I say!!!

I have a mothership connection you would NEVER understand...

Originally Posted by CULater

african traditions, just like any other, were often formed to cope with our environment or increase our chances of reproduction. similar to evolution. as such, we'll see similarities and differences among practices and traditions in not just human, but all species.

Originally Posted by CULater

answering this statement....

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

Well, can you explain how you answered that question, then? Or maybe begin by explaining how you interpreted his question? Please.

I am totally lost on these comments, too?

[CULater]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

Oh, we're back to him again.

Well, can you explain how you answered that question, then? Or maybe begin by explaining how you interpreted his question? Please.

Unless he was literally saying...show me African tradition A (and of course, "African" is that generally African like 98% of people who live in Africa and consider themselves Africans practice it, or specific, like a specific tribe in Africa) that is seen (without mutation) in Europe, Asian, South America, then of course, we won't be able to exactly give him the examples. But, I feel that the gist of a lot of our "traditions" and and cultural norms and practices stem from coping with the environment or upping our chances of passing on our genes. As such, if you look at migration or environmental similarities and differences across the world, you would be able to track the similarities and differences of african tradition among other cultures (and vice-versa).

For example, you could say that show me the tradition in other parts of where where FGM is also practiced. You probably couldn't, but if you look at the under reason (to keep girls from having sex before their husbands, or to keep wives from cheating on their husbands), and you will see similar practices in many other places of the world (keeping a woman completely clothed, foot binding, etc).