If Hazing is Wrong, what's a better alternative?

[msl2008]

because i think that everyone deserves a chance to prove their worth and don't care about who your parents are, how rich you are, what your gpa is, how fat you are, who you were in hs, etc. everyone starts over with a clean slate, undergo the same program, and whoever makes it makes it. by doing this, everyone has a fair shot at the prize and the only person who determines if you make it is YOU. that's why i want to weed people out. CFA exam allows anyone to take it (with certain restrictions) and if you pass all three parts you can get the CFA. if not, you fail. thus exclusive. but it's a fair shot for everyone to take it and pass rite?

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by msl2008

Fraternities and sororities are definitely not exclusive. You cannot take a population of 25000 people and say you only handed out 50 bids. why? because you only had 52 interviews.

why can't physical stuff be right and wrong at the same time? it's wrong b/c it's against the law but it works b/c it allows people to quit thus making it a barrier to entry for prospective members and that is my whole point. i am on here looking for an alternative to hazing that will give me the same exclusivity that we have now ie 40% of a pledge class failing.

astalum, maybe you're right. maybe i don't understand what greek life is about. so why don't you tell me what it's supposed to be? is it supposed to truly be based upon brotherhood, philanthropy, and gpa? b/c if that's true then why is the stereotype that greeks only drink and party? maybe the real greeks who follow the ideologies that you mention are the honor societies? and what kind of brotherhood do you have? i've realized that brothers in my fraternity who have gone thru hazing actually are a lot closer then brothers at other fraternities who don't haze. case in point: before i pledged i used to go to a lot of fraternity parties. i went to this one house and one brother came in and was like, "hey i know you, aren't you in my fraternity?" now you tell me what kind of brotherhood that is. when i went to rush for my fraternity, every brother there knew every other brother's name/age/where they were from and knew even more about their own pledge brothers.

why do i get rid of 30-40% of pledges? b/c i want to give everyone an equal chance that's why. everyone who wants to pledge a fraternity should be able to pledge in my opinion and i want to see who comes out alive. if i only gave bids to those i thought would be good brothers, i could be easily missing a diamond in the rough. this is why i encourage everyone to come out and then we see who can hack it. and this is for hazing or non hazing i want to eliminate some people.

In reference to your first paragraph, I don't know what you were trying to say at all.

As I've said, I don't know why it's your goal to have 40% of your pledge class fail. I will admit that I do know some fraternities that haze, but NONE of them WANT people to fail. I guess I just don't understand why you're excited to lose brothers.

You asked "Is it supposed to truly be based on brotherhood, philanthropy and GPA?" Roughly, yes. Every national website for every fraternity emphasizes brotherhood, friendship, academics, philanthropy and tradition. I doubt you'll find any that say, "If you can't do pushups, you can't join." Because that's not what these organizations were founded on. And if you think that only honor societies follow these principles and guidelines, then again, you don't understand the purpose of social Greek organizations.

Oh, and you asked... if Greek organizations are based on these ideas, why is the STEREOTYPE that they all party and drink all the time? Because it's a stereotype.. an idea that isn't true. Don't get me wrong, a lot of Greeks drink and party (as do a lot of non-Greek students), but organizations don't promote getting wasted and doing stupid things.

You gave an example of how as pledges, you knew all of the brothers names, ages, and where they were from. Ya know what's amazing... pushups didn't put that information into your head. Studying did.

Originally Posted by msl2008

because i think that everyone deserves a chance to prove their worth and don't care about who your parents are, how rich you are, what your gpa is, how fat you are, who you were in hs, etc. everyone starts over with a clean slate, undergo the same program, and whoever makes it makes it. by doing this, everyone has a fair shot at the prize and the only person who determines if you make it is YOU. that's why i want to weed people out. CFA exam allows anyone to take it (with certain restrictions) and if you pass all three parts you can get the CFA. if not, you fail. thus exclusive. but it's a fair shot for everyone to take it and pass rite?

The examples that you're giving aren't the greatest. The point is, an exam tests what you know, therefore allowing you to advance. But they test you in relation to what you'll be doing after the exam. If you're going into the military, you have to take physical exams to see if you can handle the physical challenges you'll face in order to possibly go to war. If you're joining a football team, you need to go through try-outs to test your passing, kicking, catching, running skills, etc. to see if you'd be able to play in the big game. But if you want to join a Greek organization, you need to do pushups and get yelled at, so that when you become a brother, you can attend meetings, plan social events, participate in philanthropies, and do well in school. Makes sense.

Anyway, I've made my point. I give up. I'm done.