If Hazing is Wrong, what's a better alternative?

[msl2008]

haha...i found the last few posts quite interesting. first of all, you might not believe this but i'm actually one of the more rational ones. i rarely hazed people except to get a point across and most pledges thanked me after they crossed because they told me they understood the points i was making.

why don't you think i'm greek ksuviolet? is it b/c my organization hazes and you just can't accept the fact? sorry for actually having a process where i actually had to go thru some hardships. if i was showered with gifts and encouraged the whole way i would probably be saying the same thing as you are b/c you haven't seen the other side. remember that even though football training is preparing you for the game and military training is preparing you for war, would you question that the process is effective and makes people stronger mentally and physically? even if a glo isn't preparing you for anything in particular, it can also make you stronger whether you guys agree or not.

and for those of you who say earn your letters after you cross, i ask why you don't just give your letters out to everyone then? it's funny how you think my organization is messed up but we're actually proud of our letters. i see many fraternities let friends or gfs wear their letters all the time. great way of earning your letters huh? what a joke.

but i guess you guys are right. you probably won't change my mind b/c i haven't heard of any good ideas as alternatives to hazing. doesn't really matter to me though since i don't haze people anymore anyway. i was just looking for some ideas that i could give to my chapter but if all i'm going to get is an argument on why hazing is stupid and personal insults, then i guess i'm wasting my time.

but if you guys have any GOOD ideas, i'm still open to them. but if all you want to do is insult me, well a public forum is a pretty ridiculous and childish place to do that. you guys have really proven how much you guys respect your orgs huh?

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by msl2008

why don't you think i'm greek ksuviolet? is it b/c my organization hazes and you just can't accept the fact? sorry for actually having a process where i actually had to go thru some hardships.

You missed my entire point. The stuff you're talking about isn't the stuff that fosters brotherhood or sisterhood.

Going by your logic, since I wasn't hazed, my sisters and I are not close and they don't give a crap about me or Sigma for that matter.

So, like I was saying, when I broke my nose last week, going by YOUR logic, my sisters just said "Whatever, we weren't put through some incredibly rigorous hazing together, so she doesn't matter to me."

In actuality, that couldn't be FURTHER from the truth.

Push-ups and getting yelled at isn't what made these women drive out of their way to bring my food because I was unable to cook while in pain. It's not what made them spend all day with me in the ER. It's not what made them stay over at my house all week to try and take care of me.

Your theory of Greeks who don't haze don't give a crap about their sisters or their organizations does not hold up here.

Sorry. Like I said, if all you ever got out of being Greek is that it's important to yell at people and treat them like crap, then your Greek experience has failed you miserably.

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by msl2008

why don't you think i'm greek ksuviolet? is it b/c my organization hazes and you just can't accept the fact? sorry for actually having a process where i actually had to go thru some hardships. if i was showered with gifts and encouraged the whole way i would probably be saying the same thing as you are b/c you haven't seen the other side. remember that even though football training is preparing you for the game and military training is preparing you for war, would you question that the process is effective and makes people stronger mentally and physically? even if a glo isn't preparing you for anything in particular, it can also make you stronger whether you guys agree or not.

Your analogies still suck.

and for those of you who say earn your letters after you cross, i ask why you don't just give your letters out to everyone then? it's funny how you think my organization is messed up but we're actually proud of our letters. i see many fraternities let friends or gfs wear their letters all the time. great way of earning your letters huh? what a joke.

So the only thing your organization is good for is making good pledges? I guess having good brothers is not a priority.

BTW, I've seen members of fraternities that have been hazed who still give their letters to their girlfriends. What's their excuse?

but i guess you guys are right. you probably won't change my mind b/c i haven't heard of any good ideas as alternatives to hazing. doesn't really matter to me though since i don't haze people anymore anyway. i was just looking for some ideas that i could give to my chapter but if all i'm going to get is an argument on why hazing is stupid and personal insults, then i guess i'm wasting my time.

I'm going to laugh when your chapter gets closed for a hazing incident.

but if you guys have any GOOD ideas, i'm still open to them. but if all you want to do is insult me, well a public forum is a pretty ridiculous and childish place to do that. you guys have really proven how much you guys respect your orgs huh?

You keep avoiding my question about the hybrid program. Why do you need ideas if your way is already working?

Excluding you, everyone in this thread has shown distaste for hazing and has stated that the best way to show brotherhood and sisterhood is through service in our respective organizations. That is showing respect for our GLOs.

So yea, massive fail on your part.

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by msl2008

haha...i found the last few posts quite interesting. first of all, you might not believe this but i'm actually one of the more rational ones. i rarely hazed people except to get a point across and most pledges thanked me after they crossed because they told me they understood the points i was making.

Going back to this comment...

You say most pledges thanked you. Let's give you the benefit of the doubt and say that 90% of them thought that what you did meant something, and they really appreciated it. That sounds like a good number. But let's not forget that 40% of the pledge class dropped, and clearly didn't appreciate it. Let's pretend you have a pledge class of 10 to start. 4 of them leave. Of the 6 left, 1 of them hated it and didn't enjoy being yelled at, but made it through the process anyway. That leaves 5 members of the class that actually found a meaning in it. Half. That's a pretty low number if you ask me. And not worth it.

[Ghostwriter]

Hazing really took off after WWI when the GI's came back from overseas and attended colleges. They wanted to take what they learned in boot camp and apply it to their brotherhoods. Most Fraternities were founded earlier than this timeframe and hazing was not a part of their founding.

I was hazed a long time ago and it did nothing for me. It kind of makes for interesting conversation amongst alums but it did not make me a stronger brother. It always seemed that the ones who hazed the worse were the slackers and did nothing constructive for the chapter. As a pledge trainer I concentrated on building a cohesive pledge class and having them work closely with each other and interact with the brotherhood. Learn the history, learn the lore, learn about the brothers, be true to your family, God, brotherhood and country. You don't have to do push ups or sit ups to accomplish this.

As an alum, as you say you are, you may subject yourself to being kicked permanently out of many Fraternities for any such activities. Ask yourself if it is worth it.

[Forgotten Zeta]

[quote=Ghostwriter;1791453]As a pledge trainer I concentrated on building a cohesive pledge class and having them work closely with each other and interact with the brotherhood. Learn the history, learn the lore, learn about the brothers, be true to your family, God, brotherhood and country. You don't have to do push ups or sit ups to accomplish this.


actually, it can build a cohesiveness within a pledge class. when you experience something that's actually difficult (not just memorizing old lore) with another person and have the opportunity to bond with them, motivate them, and rely on them you build a much stronger bond than someone who just does some fundraising or studies with you. It is a rite of passage knowing that every member of the organization has experienced what you are experiencing. You don't have to be worked to death, beaten, or forced to drink to have this type of experience either. I'm proud of what i went through to earn my letters, and it was evident that every other member was also. the best times i've ever had as a brother were out at the house with just other brothers hanging out but the bond that made that interaction possible was forged during the pledge period. Nobody forced me to do anything, i was free to walk whenever i wanted to. i have absolutely no problem with those who wish not to haze whatsoever, but i hope that the program at my chapter never changes.