If Hazing is Wrong, what's a better alternative?

[msl2008]

you are right, fraternities do not go to war (well at least not everyone though lots of people in my fraternity do actually). however, we are discussing what builds brotherhood/sisterhood here are we not? i am saying that doing a physical pledge process based on military training builds stronger ties then doing philanthropies and study sessions. i believe fraternity is based on the word brotherhood. even though they do not go to war, it's about building bonds. so please explain to me how your fraternity builds stronger bonds then the military. i think it's very relevant.

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by msl2008

i am saying that doing a physical pledge process based on military training builds stronger ties then doing philanthropies and study sessions.

False.

I know lots of guys who went through really tough physical hazing who could give a crap about the fraternity (or their brothers) after pledging. What good is your "basic training" pledge process if they think "cool I got in, I don't need to do anything else?"

If all you concern yourself with is hazing pledges, you're not doing anything for the fraternity, because the fraternity experience doesn't end there. I'm sorry.

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by msl2008

i thought it was pretty obvious that i wanted ideas b/c i want to reform pledging a little bit. try and make it less hazing as much as possible while still making it challenging enough so it's still exclusive.

it is possible for my chapter to get closed due to hazing. however, it is about as likely as someone in college getting busted for smoking weed. the chances are just so low and the punishments so weak that this is why hazing still exists. obviously the punishments that are given aren't enough to deter students from hazing or else we wouln't be reading about hazing incidents all the time would we?

and i still don't understand how by doing community service you're showing brotherhood/sisterhood. is it becuz ur all there that you're showing unity by volunteering your time? i see clubs do that all the time. is that really what brotherhood is to you? volunteering to the community? so i guess you can say you love your fraternity brother b/c he served popcorn with you at a sport event huh? would you feel that way if you were on a battlefield with him?

now i might have a different sense of brotherhood here but i don't believe brothers are made by doing things that anyone can do. you take your fraternity brothers and i'll take mine and if we go to war we'll see whose gonna leave who behind huh? now i understand you guys hate talking about the military but i believe military builds true bonds b/c you have to trust people with your lives. would you trust someone who just had to put in his time with you? i don't think so.

Why do you need to reform something that works for you already? If your mixed program is the best thing out there, you shouldn't need ideas.

Clearly you don't pay attention to the news if you think organizations don't get caught for hazing. And if fines and jail time aren't a deterrent for you, then you want to go to jail.

Like I said earlier, I had to go through some questionable activities so I've seen "the other side." That has not made me into a better brother. Living up to the ideals that my founders envisioned is what does that. Having casual interactions with my brothers has done it.

I never will have to go to war with my brothers, so again, your analogy sucks.

And LOL at you thinking serving popcorn is service.

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

That has not made me into a better brother. Living up to the ideals that my founders envisioned is what does that. Having casual interactions with my brothers has done it.

EXACTLY.

If you have been part of a Greek org and you think pledging is the most important part of it, you are missing the point of what your founders have started.

All you keep saying is:

Pledging should be like military training.

If you haven't been physically hazed, you have no sister/brotherhood.

You are not making any actual points.

And the fact that you don't seem to see the value in philanthropy and service as part of Greek life, leads me to seriously believe you are not Greek.