how do sororities decide?

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by srmom

Okay, so it's totally fine for chapter members to be picky so that they can keep up the prestige of the organization, yet a pnm is raked over the coals for being picky and deciding that she does not want to attend pref at a chapter she does not feel is right for her.

I guess what's good for the goose is NOT for the gander.

BTW - I am not in any way advocating letting anyone who wants in, but I do think it's a bit hypocritical to criticize the opening poster for her pickiness and then say that chapters have to be picky to keep up their prestige...

Recruitment is an interview process.

Let’s play make-believe for a moment.

Scenario 1: You want a job really badly and you’d love to do something in your field. You look through the classifieds and find numerous jobs to apply to. Some of the better jobs you find have higher qualifications, and while you try anyway, you’re pretty sure you won’t hear back from them. You don’t. That’s ok, though, because you figure it’s better to get yourself some job than to not have one at all (and you really want to get into the work force). You receive 7 calls back and go on the interviews. You're excited and you think things went well. You then get the second round of calls, but when you do, you only get 3. Your options aren't your favorites, but you go back for the second interviews, anyway. Two of the people who interviewed you were great, while one of them was a little quiet, and you found it difficult to answer her questions. You wait for the last round of calls, but you only get one. It's from the place that you weren't too thrilled about, but you still decide to go back. You talk to a different person than the last time. Both this woman and the last one aren’t the most entertaining people to talk to, but you haven’t seen much of the office and you’re still hoping you'll get that chance. You do. The pool of interviewees has been narrowed down from 20 to 3 and you know you have to put your best foot forward. You go back for what you know is the last interview. This time, things are different. You meet and interview with yet another person who you love. She’s so nice and friendly, and she offers to show you around. You meet a few other people and the office is a lot bigger than you thought. The pay and benefits are explained to you and your eyes light up. This is definitely somewhere you could see yourself.

Scenario 2: You want a job really badly and you’d love to do something in your field. You look through the classifieds and find numerous jobs to apply to. You decide, though, that you only want to apply to specific ones. The other jobs don’t look too appealing, and you couldn’t be bothered to waste your time. While you were hoping for 5-10 calls for interviews, you only received 3. But you’re not too worried because 2 of those 3 are ones that you really want. You go on the interviews and you think they all went well. After everyone tells you that you’ll hear back from them by Friday, you only hear from 2 of them. You still have one of your favorites, though. You go on both interviews, and the one potential place of employment still leaves a little something to be desired. But when you get a call back for the final interviews, you only get one call. You’re not thrilled with who the call is from. You debate for a bit, and then figure it’s not worth the effort to go to the last interview. Even though there is a 2 month probationary period, they still can’t convince you to meet with them one last time.

In the 2nd scenario, who do you blame for not having a job? Yourself, or the companies that didn’t hire you?

[SWTXBelle]

An additional point to consider - chapters do not go public with their opinions of individual pnms, or why they did not chose to extend an invitation or a bid.

No one is questioning the right of both pnms and chapters to make their memberships selections based on whatever works for them. The point is whether or not a pnm should criticize a group simply because they do not meet her individual criteria, especially if said criteria seems shallow, petty, or stupid. Also, it seems to me that most GCers simply believe that a pnm should give a chapter every opportunity - including attending pref - to change the pnms mind. Not sign a bid you don't want - simply go to the party to make sure your opinion holds.

NPC groups do not discuss membership selection at all - so those on the outside cannot say with any authority WHY a pnm was cut, they can only assume they know. And that has proven problematic here on GC, also.

[beccaminister]

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06

Recruitment is an interview process.

Let’s play make-believe for a moment.

Scenario 1: You want a job really badly and you’d love to do something in your field. You look through the classifieds and find numerous jobs to apply to. Some of the better jobs you find have higher qualifications, and while you try anyway, you’re pretty sure you won’t hear back from them. You don’t. That’s ok, though, because you figure it’s better to get yourself some job than to not have one at all (and you really want to get into the work force). You receive 7 calls back and go on the interviews. You're excited and you think things went well. You then get the second round of calls, but when you do, you only get 3. Your options aren't your favorites, but you go back for the second interviews, anyway. Two of the people who interviewed you were great, while one of them was a little quiet, and you found it difficult to answer her questions. You wait for the last round of calls, but you only get one. It's from the place that you weren't too thrilled about, but you still decide to go back. You talk to a different person than the last time. Both this woman and the last one aren’t the most entertaining people to talk to, but you haven’t seen much of the office and you’re still hoping you'll get that chance. You do. The pool of interviewees has been narrowed down from 20 to 3 and you know you have to put your best foot forward. You go back for what you know is the last interview. This time, things are different. You meet and interview with yet another person who you love. She’s so nice and friendly, and she offers to show you around. You meet a few other people and the office is a lot bigger than you thought. The pay and benefits are explained to you and your eyes light up. This is definitely somewhere you could see yourself.

Scenario 2: You want a job really badly and you’d love to do something in your field. You look through the classifieds and find numerous jobs to apply to. You decide, though, that you only want to apply to specific ones. The other jobs don’t look too appealing, and you couldn’t be bothered to waste your time. While you were hoping for 5-10 calls for interviews, you only received 3. But you’re not too worried because 2 of those 3 are ones that you really want. You go on the interviews and you think they all went well. After everyone tells you that you’ll hear back from them by Friday, you only hear from 2 of them. You still have one of your favorites, though. You go on both interviews, and the one potential place of employment still leaves a little something to be desired. But when you get a call back for the final interviews, you only get one call. You’re not thrilled with who the call is from. You debate for a bit, and then figure it’s not worth the effort to go to the last interview. Even though there is a 2 month probationary period, they still can’t convince you to meet with them one last time.

In the 2nd scenario, who do you blame for not having a job? Yourself, or the companies that didn’t hire you?

THANK YOU! and AMEN!

[lawgal]

(sigh) If only we had the sorting hat from Harry Potter....

[jwright25]

Originally Posted by lawgal

(sigh) If only we had the sorting hat from Harry Potter....

And that is the first thing that came to my mind when I read:

Originally Posted by Low C Sharp

The residential colleges at Harvard and Yale use random assignment, with 100% undergrad participation. These Houses/colleges serve many of the functions of Greek houses at other schools (smaller community, intramurals, study groups, parties and formals, community service, etc.). They have their own colors, coats of arms, traditions, etc. Again, lots of loyalty and alumni support for these institutions.

[AOEforme]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

No one is questioning the right of both pnms and chapters to make their memberships selections based on whatever works for them...... most GCers simply believe that a pnm should give a chapter every opportunity - including attending pref - to change the pnms mind. Not sign a bid you don't want - simply go to the party to make sure your opinion holds.

Danke: that's exactly the point I was trying to get across.

[agzg]

Why is this thread still open? The OP asked a question, got an answer, and got some great advice to boot.

It's time to move on.

[violetpretty]

Originally Posted by srmom

Okay, so it's totally fine for chapter members to be picky so that they can keep up the prestige of the organization, yet a pnm is raked over the coals for being picky and deciding that she does not want to attend pref at a chapter she does not feel is right for her.

I guess what's good for the goose is NOT for the gander.

BTW - I am not in any way advocating letting anyone who wants in, but I do think it's a bit hypocritical to criticize the opening poster for her pickiness and then say that chapters have to be picky to keep up their prestige...

I think prestige may be the wrong word. GLOs are values-based organizations. We should not accept PNMs who do not meet our values. Sure, some chapters choose their members based on shallow criteria, and I think that is just as bad as a PNM not giving chapters who are "beneath" them a chance.

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by violetpretty

I think prestige may be the wrong word. GLOs are values-based organizations. We should not accept PNMs who do not meet our values. Sure, some chapters choose their members based on shallow criteria, and I think that is just as bad as a PNM not giving chapters who are "beneath" them a chance.

True.

And really, PNMs are free to accept/decline whatever invites/bids they wish.

But I also think that they forfeit their right to complain about the outcome of their recruitment if they choose to decline pref invites/bids.

Too often, PNMs drop out or don't accepts bids, then they complain about the outcome and "going bidless" when in fact they had the opportunity to join.

I just say that you're free to do what you want as a PNM, but you can't blame the process/system if you drop out or decline invites.

The system is set up to place you in a sorority, just not always THE sorority you love.

[exlurker]

Originally Posted by Zillini

This scenario isn't new. Every PNM is going to have favorites and there may be a chapter or 2 were they know they would not be happy at. Fair or not, right or wrong, their reasonings may be based on knowing numerous members, gossip, gut feelings, who knows.

I'm sure we all agree that it is not fair for a chapter to string along a PNM with party invitations knowing they will cut her before Pref. One of the primary reasons RFM was created was to cut/eliminate this. But the same thing applies to a PNM who strings a chapter along with no intention of accepting a Pref invite or bid. Don't accept their early round invitations just to have a full party schedule. It's not fair to that chapter who gave an uninterested PNM one of their limited number of invites/bids. It's not fair to the other PNMs who would have gladly accepted that invite/bid, but never got the chance.

Zillini, I'm confused, as usual. Maybe I'm just not aware of a change ... but I thoought that at most / all fully structured formal recruitments, a PNM could NOT decline an invite IF she needed that invite to make a "max possible" number of parties for a particular round. Depending on how many invites someone got, she might not be able to decline any, even ones she wanted to. Am I really wrong?

[PenguinTrax]

Originally Posted by srmom

And she will have to live with the decision she made. In the future, she may rue the choice, maybe not, who knows.

But, bullying people into making, what for them is, a wrong choice is not going to strengthen a struggling chapter. Unhappy, complaining new pledges - poisoning the entire pledge class - is worse in my opinion.

This gal decided it wasn't for her - so be it.

Quite so. There's been some very good advice here, and just about anything that could be said on the subject, has been said already.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by exlurker

Zillini, I'm confused, as usual. Maybe I'm just not aware of a change ... but I thoought that at most / all fully structured formal recruitments, a PNM could NOT decline an invite IF she needed that invite to make a "max possible" number of parties for a particular round. Depending on how many invites someone got, she might not be able to decline any, even ones she wanted to. Am I really wrong?

You are correct. It wouldn't make a difference anyway. The chapters get to release a certain number. The PNMs release after they receive invitations. No additional girls get to be invited if no one wants to accept their invites to a particular chapter. The point of having the PNMs keep going back is that even if they think they aren't interested at first, they may have no other options as the process advances.

[Zillini]

Originally Posted by exlurker

Zillini, I'm confused, as usual. Maybe I'm just not aware of a change ... but I thoought that at most / all fully structured formal recruitments, a PNM could NOT decline an invite IF she needed that invite to make a "max possible" number of parties for a particular round. Depending on how many invites someone got, she might not be able to decline any, even ones she wanted to. Am I really wrong?

My apologies. I admit I am not used to the new (at least for this campus) preferential ranking system. Now PNMs group/rank the chapters they attended for a round, then sororities submit their invitation lists. After a little computer magic, PNMs simply receive a party schedule for the next round.

My earlier response came out of habit from spending so many years with the accept/regret system. A PNM was not forced to accept the max invitations, although not maximizing her options risked not receiving a guaranteed bid. There were PNMs who were willing to take this risk because they knew without a shadow of a doubt that they would not accept a bid from XYZ.

I understand the logic behind RFM and the preferential ranking. The goal is that if a PNM gives XYZ a chance by spending more time with them, then maybe she will realize that this is a sisterhood where she could be happy. That is a wonderful idea in theory, but let's be honest things don't always work that way. There will always be PNMs who won't change their minds no matter how much time they spend with a chapter.

I personally think it is unfair for those chapters who are in essence being strung along hoping to change minds. On top of that, these chapters are typically the smallest and therefore are being forced to spend a lot of resources (both in sister power and money) recruiting women who will not accept a bid from them. Is it really helpful to these small chapters to make them recruit with 1 active to 3 or 4 PNMs when there is no chance of "getting" 2 or even 3 of them? Wouldn't it be better to have a 1:1 or 1:2 recruiter to PNM ratio with those they truly have a chance at?

Just my thoughts.

[KSUViolet06]

I always feel like a PNM has every right in the world to decline bids/pref invites/ whatever.

However, my opinions is that you kind of forfeit your right to complain about the system/the process when you do so.

[fantASTic]

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

I always feel like a PNM has every right in the world to decline bids/pref invites/ whatever.

However, my opinions is that you kind of forfeit your right to complain about the system/the process when you do so.

I agree. However it is worth pointing out that the OP did not complain, she simply asked a common question - how we decide.