White men in NPHC

[Reds6]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

Except that the Muslim sorority that made news openly accepts non-Muslims who as long as they will follow the rules and values of the sorority. The D9 orgs accept non-black members. Without knowing membership requirements, I doubt many would encourage a white man to go for it, if one had to be black. No, a white person cannot completely understand because they can't be raised and live black. But a white person can be dedicated to the goals of the organization.

I've seen posts where people say they'd challenge a white soror or frat harder upon meeting them because they'd doubt their reasons, even though they're already a member! I'm really not only talking about this one situation. But I do not feel it is right to accept something offensive just because it is someone's feeling. I have nothing against Reds6 and I know why she's saying what she does, but I cannot accept that as ok, particularly when many others of her, and other d9, organization encourage a white man to puruse his interest in the NPHC.

As there were references to my GLO, if I ever heard a sister say something along those lines I would not be silent, so no worries. I'm not naive, I just won't stand for certain things.

Do you know the goals of D9 organizations? I just question how you can be dedicated to something you don't fully understand.
And I don't think I encouraged or discouraged anyone from pursuing any type of organization. Just because I wouldn't cast my vote for a white member doesn't mean everyone feels the same as I do; nor does it mean that non-people of color shouldn't pursue a BGLO. Just as I had no desire to pursue a NPC I just don't get why whites would want to join a BGLO. Never did never will. However, I think that most importantly I wouldn't treat that member disrespectfully, but I also think it’s natural to ask a non-person of color why this choice?

[Reds6]

Originally Posted by FAMUDva

D9 Sororities are much bigger than a particular chapter or campus... So, I still don't get how you can't be "black" enough, but to each her own.

ETA: And with proper research you would have come to understand and know that the 4 D9 sororities DO have mutlicultural histories although they are historically black. I guess you made generalizations based on what you saw in the bubble of your campus.

I think she made a generalization on what she was taught at home.

[Reds6]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

Oh I completely agree that she isn't comfortable with herself, it was the "I'm Glad someone so screwed up isn't in my sorority" comments that made me post. I'd rather see all of our organizations working towards lifting women up, not breaking them down.

Also, while I understand what you're saying that you would not vote for a white person, I cannot help but be offended by it. Perhaps, this is a personal failing but I could never imagine saying or thinking anything like it myself, and I just find it offensive.

Oh you can be.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by Reds6

Do you realize how many of us can go down our family line and say we have this and that in regards to different heritages in our blood line. When I hear someone say they aren't this or that enough I think they aren't comfortable with themselves and who they are.

Exactly. We are an extremely diverse people. Different life experiences, viewpoints, shades of lightness and darkness, hair textures, body compositions, etc.

Hell some of the most celebrated figures who were "100% black" in some regards, like Du Bois and Booker T Washington, were less than "50% black."

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by Reds6

Do you know the goals of D9 organizations? I just question how you can be dedicated to something you don't fully understand.
And I don't think I encouraged or discouraged anyone from pursuing any type of organization. Just because I wouldn't cast my vote for a white member doesn't mean everyone feels the same as I do; nor does it mean that non-people of color shouldn't pursue a BGLO. Just as I had no desire to pursue a NPC I just don't get why whites would want to join a BGLO. Never did never will. However, I think that most importantly I wouldn't treat that member disrespectfully, but I also think it’s natural to ask a non-person of color why this choice?

From reading the websites, I do not see anything that says a complete understanding of what it is to be black is required. Understanding the goals is an entirely different matter. You did not encourage or discourage anyone, I wasn't only discussing your comments however, but others I've seen on this, and other more NPHC focused message boards. I never said I thought this was an issue at an organizational level, simply one on an individual level.
I would expect members of an organization to be looked at with equal respect and not to have their motives questioned after they are already members. Isn't that the purpose of a pledge period/membership process or whatever?

Originally Posted by Reds6

Oh you can be.

Believe me, this isn't some sort of crusade nor huge personal issue, but not only can I not help be offended based on my own personal morals, but I do not wish to be un-offended when someone makes a racially biased remark. It is a moral issue with me. So no, I cannot be.

[Finer Woman10-A-91]

Originally Posted by Reds6

...Just because I wouldn't cast my vote for a white member doesn't mean everyone feels the same as I do; nor does it mean that non-people of color shouldn't pursue a BGLO.

Just as I had no desire to pursue a NPC I just don't get why whites would want to join a BGLO. Never did never will. However, I think that most importantly I wouldn't treat that member disrespectfully, but I also think it’s natural to ask a non-person of color why this choice?

We are >>>>here<<<<<

Interesting... ALL the feedback from folks who are NOT a part of a D9 group.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

From reading the websites

Originally Posted by Drolefille

I do not see anything that says a complete understanding of what it is to be black is required. Understanding the goals is an entirely different matter.

You may have a narrow understanding of what "understanding what it is to be black" means.

To many, that means understanding our rich history and all those things that go into the uniqueness of the African diasporic cultures. Also understanding the diversity of experiences in the cultures. You don't have to be of the African diaspora to grasp this and being of the African diaspora doesn't mean that you grasp it. However, more often than not, I encounter whites (since we're talking about whites in the NPHC) who reduce "black" to oppression and discrimination or music and sports.

So, NO, you can not understand the goals of organizations that serve the larger society through a focus on the black communities without understanding what it is to be black.

Originally Posted by Drolefille

I would expect members of an organization to be looked at with equal respect and not to have their motives questioned after they are already members. Isn't that the purpose of a pledge period/membership process or whatever?

No, that's not the purpose. Motives are always questioned, regardless of the race of the person. And we always have to prove ourselves. Not only as members based on having a membership number but as members based on living out our lifetime commitment.

[Reds6]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

From reading the websites, I do not see anything that says a complete understanding of what it is to be black is required. Understanding the goals is an entirely different matter. You did not encourage or discourage anyone, I wasn't only discussing your comments however, but others I've seen on this, and other more NPHC focused message boards. I never said I thought this was an issue at an organizational level, simply one on an individual level.
I would expect members of an organization to be looked at with equal respect and not to have their motives questioned after they are already members. Isn't that the purpose of a pledge period/membership process or whatever?


Believe me, this isn't some sort of crusade nor huge personal issue, but not only can I not help be offended based on my own personal morals, but I do not wish to be un-offended when someone makes a racially biased remark. It is a moral issue with me. So no, I cannot be.

I don't think I stated the website expressed a view on blackness or qualifications. My opinion is that of my own. I am not an official spokesperson of the organization so I can comment on her stance nor would I. I just find it curious why a non-person of color would want to join a BGLO that focuses on issues that affect people of color namely Black people and our community. I truly think that I view the responsibility to my community as a duty and I personally know the dire need to uplift my community. It's not something I opened a book to learn but something I live and live with everyday. I don't see a white member having the same level of commitment, passion, and level of responsibility to my people as I.

Regarding the respect issue I think I stated I would not disrespect a white member, I just simply wouldn't vote for a white candidate. But going back to the original question of the thread. If you are a white member of a BGLO, you have to expect that some aren't going to be happy with your choice.

I'm not sure how my statement is bias. I think it's a fact that my experience as a black woman is different than that of a white woman. I don't care how liberal, so called color blind one may claim to be, you truly can't understand the struggle and beauty of my people. We may have similar issues regarding women's right for example, but join the Women's league.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

You may have a narrow understanding of what "understanding what it is to be black" means.

To many, that means understanding our rich history and all those things that go into the uniqueness of the African diasporic cultures. Also understanding the diversity of experiences in the cultures. You don't have to be of the African diaspora to grasp this and being of the African diaspora doesn't mean that you grasp it. However, more often than not, I encounter whites (since we're talking about whites in the NPHC) who reduce "black" to oppression and discrimination or music and sports.

I think my understanding of "understanding what it is to be black" is basically what you're talking about here. Anything that can be learned through education, should be. When I say that I can't truly understand what's is like to be black it is because I cannot live a second life where I actually experience being black. While currently I am not completely, or even sufficiently, educated on these things I do strive to become more so.

So, NO, you can not understand the goals of organizations that serve the larger society through a focus on the black communities without understanding what it is to be black.

As I mention above, the difference I refer to is in the actual experience of being black. And that's what I mean when I say a white person can never achieve that.

No, that's not the purpose. Motives are always questioned, regardless of the race of the person. And we always have to prove ourselves. Not only as members based on having a membership number but as members based on living out our lifetime commitment.

I understand that. I guess I was thinking on more of a casual meeting or perhaps in a situation where it is obvious that the soror, regardless of her color, is dedicated because of her actions. But that's fair.

Originally Posted by Reds6

I don't think I stated the website expressed a view on blackness or qualifications. My opinion is that of my own. I am not an official spokesperson of the organization so I can comment on her stance nor would I.

I'm not really speaking about the organizations as a whole

I just find it curious why a non-person of color would want to join a BGLO that focuses on issues that affect people of color namely Black people and our community. I truly think that I view the responsibility to my community as a duty and I personally know the dire need to uplift my community. It's not something I opened a book to learn but something I live and live with everyday. I don't see a white member having the same level of commitment, passion, and level of responsibility to my people as I.

If you took too members who are equally active, but one is white and one is black you see the white one as being less committed? Or is this only a personal comparison? After DSTChaos' comment about all members being required to continually prove their commitment, I understand that concept, however expecting one to prove more based on the color of her skin? I don't get that on a fundamental level.

Regarding the respect issue I think I stated I would not disrespect a white member, I just simply wouldn't vote for a white candidate. But going back to the original question of the thread. If you are a white member of a BGLO, you have to expect that some aren't going to be happy with your choice.

And I find that unfortunate.

I'm not sure how my statement is bias. I think it's a fact that my experience as a black woman is different than that of a white woman. I don't care how liberal, so called color blind one may claim to be, you truly can't understand the struggle and beauty of my people. We may have similar issues regarding women's right for example, but join the Women's league.

[/QUOTE]
Yes, your experience is almost certainly different, but I take exception to the fact that assumptions are made based soley on the skin color of the applicant no matter her other qualities.

[DSTRen13]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

From reading the websites, I do not see anything that says a complete understanding of what it is to be black is required. Understanding the goals is an entirely different matter. You did not encourage or discourage anyone, I wasn't only discussing your comments however, but others I've seen on this, and other more NPHC focused message boards. I never said I thought this was an issue at an organizational level, simply one on an individual level.
I would expect members of an organization to be looked at with equal respect and not to have their motives questioned after they are already members. Isn't that the purpose of a pledge period/membership process or whatever?

I mean no offense by this, but this is one of those things that is just very different between NPC and NPHC, and I don't know if you can understand without being a member, just like I know I will never be able to understand NPC recruitment rules.

It would completely absurd for a non-black BGLO member to be offended when he or she is questioned about membership. Honestly, if I am walking down the street and meet a woman wearing letters that I don't know, I am going to accept her more quickly as my Soror if she is black - I mean, if nothing else, that's statistics. If you are a non-black member of a BGLO (which, as most of you know, I am), then you expect questions - about your legitimacy, your motives, etc. Some people will have a big problem with you, others won't. If you can't deal with that, and it's not worth it to you, you don't join the org.

[eggbert]

old blue;

it depends on the greek organiztion. some fraternities are more open to other races becoming members. look at all five and judge for yourself.

Originally Posted by oldblue

In the fall I will be a sophmore at a large HBCU. I am interested in joing a Fraternity. I would like any advice or tips on joing. I do not know exactly how to approach it. How large of a hurdle if any will my ethnic backround be.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by DSTRen13

I mean no offense by this, but this is one of those things that is just very different between NPC and NPHC, and I don't know if you can understand without being a member, just like I know I will never be able to understand NPC recruitment rules.

It would completely absurd for a non-black BGLO member to be offended when he or she is questioned about membership. Honestly, if I am walking down the street and meet a woman wearing letters that I don't know, I am going to accept her more quickly as my Soror if she is black - I mean, if nothing else, that's statistics. If you are a non-black member of a BGLO (which, as most of you know, I am), then you expect questions - about your legitimacy, your motives, etc. Some people will have a big problem with you, others won't. If you can't deal with that, and it's not worth it to you, you don't join the org.

I got some of that from DSTChao's posts, I just think it a shame that there is MORE on a non-black member, however expected that is. I do learn things here

[RedefinedDiva]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

Oh I completely agree that she isn't comfortable with herself, it was the "I'm Glad someone so screwed up isn't in my sorority" comments that made me post. I'd rather see all of our organizations working towards lifting women up, not breaking them down.

I said it before and I'll say it again. I'm glad that someone with such screwed up thinking DID NOT become a member of my Sorority.

D9 Sororities are ALWAYS working within the community with young woman and girls to ensure that they are molded and have a better understanding of their own self-worth. However, we cannot undo all the nonsese that may be ingrained in a person's mind after YEARS of denying their own heritage. I don't know anyone's personal circumstances, nor do I care to. But just like you take offense to my comments, I take offense to hers. To make statements like "I'm not 'Black' enough to be a member of the XYZ Sorority" is ridiculous. You see no one with all these wild accusations has been back to explain what they mean. How can a white chick be "Black enough" to join a D9 Sorority, but a chick that is HALF Black isn't? That goes to show that she has no clue about her Black heritage, nor has she taken the time to find out.

I would much rather someone just say they didn't find the right "fit" when it came to NPHC or NPC Sororities instead of saying they aren't "Black" or "White" enough to make it in. You can choose not to be offended, but I am.

[Eclipse]

Originally Posted by JWithers

Thanks for your post. I hope you are right. She has her heart set on Spelman....and joining a sorority. I want for her what her heart desires...almost like she were my own daughter. I love that little girl!

Congratulations to your niece for getting accepted at Spelman! She will join a wonderful legacy of woman if she chooses to attend. AKA_Monet could speak to this more since she pledged at Spelman, but as a Spelman alumna, I can tell you she will not be the first biracial student at Spelman, nor the first to join a sorority at Spelman. Spelman is a sisterhood like no other and she should focus on getting aclimated to the Spelman sisterhood before thinking about a sorority. Freshwomen (as we used to call them when I was a student) cannot join a sorority anyway, so she will have plenty of time to observe and learn about the sororities on campus.

Good luck to your niece. If she decided to attend, I may meet her later this summer! They have a time during Orientation Week for alumnae to come back and share the history of the College and how things were "back in the day". I have not been in about 2 years, and I am looking forward to attending this year!

[DSTRen13]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

I got some of that from DSTChao's posts, I just think it a shame that there is MORE on a non-black member, however expected that is. I do learn things here

If anyone comes here and doesn't learn something, they're trying not to