White men in NPHC

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by Reds6

Do you know the goals of D9 organizations? I just question how you can be dedicated to something you don't fully understand.
And I don't think I encouraged or discouraged anyone from pursuing any type of organization. Just because I wouldn't cast my vote for a white member doesn't mean everyone feels the same as I do; nor does it mean that non-people of color shouldn't pursue a BGLO. Just as I had no desire to pursue a NPC I just don't get why whites would want to join a BGLO. Never did never will. However, I think that most importantly I wouldn't treat that member disrespectfully, but I also think it’s natural to ask a non-person of color why this choice?

From reading the websites, I do not see anything that says a complete understanding of what it is to be black is required. Understanding the goals is an entirely different matter. You did not encourage or discourage anyone, I wasn't only discussing your comments however, but others I've seen on this, and other more NPHC focused message boards. I never said I thought this was an issue at an organizational level, simply one on an individual level.
I would expect members of an organization to be looked at with equal respect and not to have their motives questioned after they are already members. Isn't that the purpose of a pledge period/membership process or whatever?

Originally Posted by Reds6

Oh you can be.

Believe me, this isn't some sort of crusade nor huge personal issue, but not only can I not help be offended based on my own personal morals, but I do not wish to be un-offended when someone makes a racially biased remark. It is a moral issue with me. So no, I cannot be.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

From reading the websites

Originally Posted by Drolefille

I do not see anything that says a complete understanding of what it is to be black is required. Understanding the goals is an entirely different matter.

You may have a narrow understanding of what "understanding what it is to be black" means.

To many, that means understanding our rich history and all those things that go into the uniqueness of the African diasporic cultures. Also understanding the diversity of experiences in the cultures. You don't have to be of the African diaspora to grasp this and being of the African diaspora doesn't mean that you grasp it. However, more often than not, I encounter whites (since we're talking about whites in the NPHC) who reduce "black" to oppression and discrimination or music and sports.

So, NO, you can not understand the goals of organizations that serve the larger society through a focus on the black communities without understanding what it is to be black.

Originally Posted by Drolefille

I would expect members of an organization to be looked at with equal respect and not to have their motives questioned after they are already members. Isn't that the purpose of a pledge period/membership process or whatever?

No, that's not the purpose. Motives are always questioned, regardless of the race of the person. And we always have to prove ourselves. Not only as members based on having a membership number but as members based on living out our lifetime commitment.

[Reds6]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

From reading the websites, I do not see anything that says a complete understanding of what it is to be black is required. Understanding the goals is an entirely different matter. You did not encourage or discourage anyone, I wasn't only discussing your comments however, but others I've seen on this, and other more NPHC focused message boards. I never said I thought this was an issue at an organizational level, simply one on an individual level.
I would expect members of an organization to be looked at with equal respect and not to have their motives questioned after they are already members. Isn't that the purpose of a pledge period/membership process or whatever?


Believe me, this isn't some sort of crusade nor huge personal issue, but not only can I not help be offended based on my own personal morals, but I do not wish to be un-offended when someone makes a racially biased remark. It is a moral issue with me. So no, I cannot be.

I don't think I stated the website expressed a view on blackness or qualifications. My opinion is that of my own. I am not an official spokesperson of the organization so I can comment on her stance nor would I. I just find it curious why a non-person of color would want to join a BGLO that focuses on issues that affect people of color namely Black people and our community. I truly think that I view the responsibility to my community as a duty and I personally know the dire need to uplift my community. It's not something I opened a book to learn but something I live and live with everyday. I don't see a white member having the same level of commitment, passion, and level of responsibility to my people as I.

Regarding the respect issue I think I stated I would not disrespect a white member, I just simply wouldn't vote for a white candidate. But going back to the original question of the thread. If you are a white member of a BGLO, you have to expect that some aren't going to be happy with your choice.

I'm not sure how my statement is bias. I think it's a fact that my experience as a black woman is different than that of a white woman. I don't care how liberal, so called color blind one may claim to be, you truly can't understand the struggle and beauty of my people. We may have similar issues regarding women's right for example, but join the Women's league.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

You may have a narrow understanding of what "understanding what it is to be black" means.

To many, that means understanding our rich history and all those things that go into the uniqueness of the African diasporic cultures. Also understanding the diversity of experiences in the cultures. You don't have to be of the African diaspora to grasp this and being of the African diaspora doesn't mean that you grasp it. However, more often than not, I encounter whites (since we're talking about whites in the NPHC) who reduce "black" to oppression and discrimination or music and sports.

I think my understanding of "understanding what it is to be black" is basically what you're talking about here. Anything that can be learned through education, should be. When I say that I can't truly understand what's is like to be black it is because I cannot live a second life where I actually experience being black. While currently I am not completely, or even sufficiently, educated on these things I do strive to become more so.

So, NO, you can not understand the goals of organizations that serve the larger society through a focus on the black communities without understanding what it is to be black.

As I mention above, the difference I refer to is in the actual experience of being black. And that's what I mean when I say a white person can never achieve that.

No, that's not the purpose. Motives are always questioned, regardless of the race of the person. And we always have to prove ourselves. Not only as members based on having a membership number but as members based on living out our lifetime commitment.

I understand that. I guess I was thinking on more of a casual meeting or perhaps in a situation where it is obvious that the soror, regardless of her color, is dedicated because of her actions. But that's fair.

Originally Posted by Reds6

I don't think I stated the website expressed a view on blackness or qualifications. My opinion is that of my own. I am not an official spokesperson of the organization so I can comment on her stance nor would I.

I'm not really speaking about the organizations as a whole

I just find it curious why a non-person of color would want to join a BGLO that focuses on issues that affect people of color namely Black people and our community. I truly think that I view the responsibility to my community as a duty and I personally know the dire need to uplift my community. It's not something I opened a book to learn but something I live and live with everyday. I don't see a white member having the same level of commitment, passion, and level of responsibility to my people as I.

If you took too members who are equally active, but one is white and one is black you see the white one as being less committed? Or is this only a personal comparison? After DSTChaos' comment about all members being required to continually prove their commitment, I understand that concept, however expecting one to prove more based on the color of her skin? I don't get that on a fundamental level.

Regarding the respect issue I think I stated I would not disrespect a white member, I just simply wouldn't vote for a white candidate. But going back to the original question of the thread. If you are a white member of a BGLO, you have to expect that some aren't going to be happy with your choice.

And I find that unfortunate.

I'm not sure how my statement is bias. I think it's a fact that my experience as a black woman is different than that of a white woman. I don't care how liberal, so called color blind one may claim to be, you truly can't understand the struggle and beauty of my people. We may have similar issues regarding women's right for example, but join the Women's league.

[/QUOTE]
Yes, your experience is almost certainly different, but I take exception to the fact that assumptions are made based soley on the skin color of the applicant no matter her other qualities.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

I think my understanding of "understanding what it is to be black" is basically what you're talking about here. Anything that can be learned through education, should be. When I say that I can't truly understand what's is like to be black it is because I cannot live a second life where I actually experience being black. While currently I am not completely, or even sufficiently, educated on these things I do strive to become more so.

I see. But even after becoming educated on such things, that doesn't mean you have it in your heart to devote a lifetime commitment to such things. That applies to any organization with a particular type of interest and philanthropy-base.

It's easy to read about things or even see things in passing, but to choose (or be forced) to experience them directly or indirectly is another matter. Many nonblacks have only a passing understanding or concern for things that can be considered in blacks' histories and experiences. They are nonblack members of a BGLO in one setting and switch up completely as soon as they take off their 'nalia and get around other nonblacks.

If starang21 actually hung with other nonblacks, he might've been like that too. Then I'd have to leave him.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

Also remember that we are individuals typing. We don't express the sentiment of anyone but ourselves.

I've said that all along

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

I see. But even after becoming educated on such things, that doesn't mean you have it in your heart to devote a lifetime commitment to such things. That applies to any organization with a particular type of interest and philanthropy-base.

Quite true, my interest is more of an academic one. But I'm also not interested in joining an NPHC sorority. (No offense you know )

If starang21 actually hung with other nonblacks, he might've been like that too. Then I'd have to leave him.

No, that would be sad. Don't do that!

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

Quite true, my interest is more of an academic one. But I'm also not interested in joining an NPHC sorority. (No offense you know )

None taken.

See, academic interests are cool because we all have them. My research interests include the black community and the black church. But there's often (not always) a difference between when I study the black community versus a white person coming in to study the black community. There's historical and contemporary antagonism in that. It can make people feel like subjects who are being scrutinized and even used for something that doesn't fit a communal goal. That's how some black people feel when they vote whites into our organizations.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

None taken.

See, academic interests are cool because we all have them. My research interests include the black community and the black church. But there's often (not always) a difference between when I study the black community versus a white person coming in to study the black community. There's historical and contemporary antagonism in that. It can make people feel like subjects who are being scrutinized and even used for something that doesn't fit a communal goal. That's how some black people feel when they vote whites into our organizations.

I can understand that, just that I would hope each candidate is voted on by each member on their individual merits, not by the color of their skin.

I was fortunate enough to take a class on African-American Psychology. Big eye-opener to me. When I talked about it to other friends they were like... "and how is that different from everyone else's psychology?" Got me really looking at how everything from psychological theories to every day assumptions are based on white males and studies using white male college students. (Although due to the number of females in psychology who are often required to participate in studies, that's changing a bit)

[DSTRen13]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

From reading the websites, I do not see anything that says a complete understanding of what it is to be black is required. Understanding the goals is an entirely different matter. You did not encourage or discourage anyone, I wasn't only discussing your comments however, but others I've seen on this, and other more NPHC focused message boards. I never said I thought this was an issue at an organizational level, simply one on an individual level.
I would expect members of an organization to be looked at with equal respect and not to have their motives questioned after they are already members. Isn't that the purpose of a pledge period/membership process or whatever?

I mean no offense by this, but this is one of those things that is just very different between NPC and NPHC, and I don't know if you can understand without being a member, just like I know I will never be able to understand NPC recruitment rules.

It would completely absurd for a non-black BGLO member to be offended when he or she is questioned about membership. Honestly, if I am walking down the street and meet a woman wearing letters that I don't know, I am going to accept her more quickly as my Soror if she is black - I mean, if nothing else, that's statistics. If you are a non-black member of a BGLO (which, as most of you know, I am), then you expect questions - about your legitimacy, your motives, etc. Some people will have a big problem with you, others won't. If you can't deal with that, and it's not worth it to you, you don't join the org.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by DSTRen13

I mean no offense by this, but this is one of those things that is just very different between NPC and NPHC, and I don't know if you can understand without being a member, just like I know I will never be able to understand NPC recruitment rules.

It would completely absurd for a non-black BGLO member to be offended when he or she is questioned about membership. Honestly, if I am walking down the street and meet a woman wearing letters that I don't know, I am going to accept her more quickly as my Soror if she is black - I mean, if nothing else, that's statistics. If you are a non-black member of a BGLO (which, as most of you know, I am), then you expect questions - about your legitimacy, your motives, etc. Some people will have a big problem with you, others won't. If you can't deal with that, and it's not worth it to you, you don't join the org.

I got some of that from DSTChao's posts, I just think it a shame that there is MORE on a non-black member, however expected that is. I do learn things here

[DSTRen13]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

I got some of that from DSTChao's posts, I just think it a shame that there is MORE on a non-black member, however expected that is. I do learn things here

If anyone comes here and doesn't learn something, they're trying not to

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

I got some of that from DSTChao's posts, I just think it a shame that there is MORE on a non-black member, however expected that is. I do learn things here

Well, the logic does make sense when you think about it. I'm a social scientist. If for some earthly reason I wanted to join the National Earth Science Association, I'd have the regular requirements to fulfill. But I'd also have to fulfill the unwritten requirements of becoming a hard sciences person, being able to interact with hard sciences people who are or aren't in my organization, and relate to hard sciences "concerns." I can't think it's unfair that I'm being put through the wringer more than people who are hard science people and not social scientists.

Also remember that we are individuals typing. We don't express the sentiment of anyone but ourselves.