Fraternity Member Branded TCU

[baci]

True^^

This is serious and it doesn't matter if he consented once, twice, or three times.

Keep in mind hazing refers to any activity expected of someone joining a group - or to maintain full status in a group - that humiliates, degrades or risks emotional and/or physical harm, regardless of the person's willingness to participate.

[RU OX Alum]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

He's so full of shit.

I agree.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by Psi U MC Vito

It is still hazing, because it even if you comply it is because of coercion.

From a legal/criminal/disciplinary standpoint, it's probably off-the-mark to say you can't consent to hazing. Obviously as a practical matter, you can, although that consent can indeed be based on coercion and given under duress.

But the relevant legal factor is that consent is not a defense to a charge of hazing.

Originally Posted by baci

Keep in mind hazing refers to any activity expected of someone joining a group - or to maintain full status in a group - that humiliates, degrades or risks emotional and/or physical harm, regardless of the person's willingness to participate.

While this may be generally true, it all depends on how "hazing" is defined by the relevant state law or institutional policy. In my state, it's only hazing if there's physical injury involved. Humiliation and emotional harm don't meet the legal definition.

[LaneSig]

Originally Posted by why.so.curious?

Ok he consented the first time he was branded, but then he was branded several times while passed out. He didn't consent to that. The Star-Telegram article says that once he passed out, someone (presumably fraternity brothers) continued to brand him with Deltas (for Tri Delt). He's not completely innocent, but the facts need to be taken into consideration.

I'm having problems with the "passed out" part. If I was passed out, either by being drunk or whatever, I can guarantee that the first time someone held a piece of hot metal to my ass, I would be up. They wouldn't be able to do it "several times" and me stay passed out.

But then, I have a low pain threshold. I don't see how women get their legs waxed. I'd be all, "Yeah, not again. I'll walk around with hairy legs."

[exlurker]

Originally Posted by OleMissGlitter

I must live under a big rock...who is Amon Carter?

From one of the many news reports:

" . . . the Carters, who brought Chance Carter to the emergency room for treatment as soon as he returned home, have already consulted with a plastic surgeon who estimated it would take at least six procedures to repair.

. . . The Carters are one of the most prominent families in Forth Worth. Amon G. Carter was the president and publisher of the Forth Worth Star-Telegram newspaper in the 1920s "

(Ole Miss Glitter, I wondered the same thing, which certainly says something about my lowly social standing.)

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by exlurker

(Ole Miss Glitter, I wondered the same thing, which certainly says something about my lowly social standing.)

Or like for most people, Fort Worth is not the center of the universe

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

Or like for most people, Fort Worth is not the center of the universe

[AGDee]

I could see passing out from the pain itself. That happens.

[squirrely girl]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

I don't believe he was passed out.

seriously?! cause you were there and all? do you have some super psychic power the rest of us don't know about? seriously, enough with the victim blaming. it's no classier when used to make excuses for people who brand than it is to mitigate the behavior of a rapist.

sure he got drunk and made a crappy decision. i'm pretty sure a few of us here have done some stupid crap while drunk. sure he "consented." aside from the issue that i don't really believe you can truly "consent" to hazing activities anymore than you can truly consent to sex while drunk. but i agree that when he withdrew his consent either verbally or by becoming unconscious they should have stopped. this isn't really a difficult concept to understand. again, this is called assault. i liken it very much to date rapists that have sex with disturbingly drunk or unconscious girls. people who assault other people do so because they think they're special and because they're self-absorbed people who don't value the rights of others. disfiguring scars and multiple surgeries aren't a "lesson" anybody should have to "learn."

and i'm "so sorry" for the "poor" guys (and girls?) that are going to get taken to task over this but if people haven't figured out that its not a good idea to engage in activities that could be considered hazing, in Colorado of all places... then their DUMB ASSES deserve to go to jail.

- m

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by squirrely girl

seriously, enough with the victim blaming.

Assuming there's a victim.

Originally Posted by squirrely girl

it's no classier....

"Classy" is such an overused word on GC.

I honestly don't hear adults walking around talking about "classy."

[squirrely girl]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Assuming there's a victim.

well going from the idea that he didn't burn his own butt... or continue to burn his own butt...

and if the crux of your response is your distaste for the overuse of the word classy, let me first apologize profusely and then ask for a list of more obscure words with which to make my future points.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by squirrely girl

well going from the idea that he didn't burn his own butt... or continue to burn his own butt...

...then he may've been just another person who agreed to get branded by people who don't know what they're doing. It unfortunately happens.

If people are going to play the fence on this one, cool. However, if people are going to assume he's a victim just because there are accusations, the rest of us will continue being as skeptical as we are being.

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by squirrely girl

but i agree that when he withdrew his consent either verbally or by becoming unconscious they should have stopped.

He withdrew his consent? Seriously?! Cause you were there and all? Do you have some super psychic power the rest of us don't know about?

Works both ways.

[epchick]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

...then he may've been just another person who agreed to get branded by people who don't know what they're doing. It unfortunately happens.

If people are going to play the fence on this one, cool. However, if people are going to assume he's a victim just because there are accusations, the rest of us will continue being as skeptical as we are being.

For reals!! lol


So this is probably how it happened.....

Dude gets drunk w/ buddies and buddies think it would be cool to get branded but no one was 'brave' enough to volunteer.

Dude volunteers, cause he wants to show he's cool.

Dude gets the brand, and is probably too drunk to even realize what he's done.

Mommy and Daddy stumble across the brand and realize that their immaculate son has been horribly disfigured by hooligans.

Dude is too embarrassed to tell the truth so he blames it on 'hazing.'


The. End.

[kchaptergphib]

My take on this (also as someone not familiar with the Carters or the DFW area) is that the guy is, quite literally a DUMB*SS. I feel a bit sorry for him that he's going to have to continue to endure sh*t like surgeries and ridicule and people talking about him on message boards, but you did something dumb, your family may be blowing it out of proportion, and great-grandaddy's paper is publicizing it, what do you expect?!
I'll repeat: literally, DUMBASS.