Ohio teens guilty of rape, face year-plus in jail

[StealthMode]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

As it should be. Placing a foreign object, should it be a penis, fingers or an inanimate object, in another person's vagina or anus without their consent is rape. Some jurisdictions may not be up to snuff on that, but the object inserted doesn't change the intrusion.

Agreed.

@Stealthmode, DBB's point about abstinence only education is that it only tells kids to wait until marriage instead of acknowledging the truth that teenagers are sexual beings who are experimenting with sex. It does not take the opportunity to discuss very important topics like consent, inability to form consent due to impairment from alcohol/drugs, etc, safe sex, as well as abstinence.

This is the part I didn't get--what do the first 2 sentences have to do with each other? What I mean is, why single out abstinence-only programs if even standard or "excellent" sex ed courses do not address the extremely important subject of consent either? Pointing to the former implies that they contribute to the problem more than any other sex ed program which seems to be the message below.

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

And IMO, abstinence-only education DOES contribute to rape culture, because it teaches that "good women don't have sex" and so on. It's a very straight line from there to slut shaming, victim blaming, etc.

This is where we disagree--I see this as a very slippery slope argument. It's opposite from what people who push abstinence-only programs tend to say but it's just as fallible (to me) as saying those who get proper sex ed would take it as a green light to sleep with everyone. Both types of programs have their good and bad points. IMO the basic message I get from Ab-only is "Good girls don't have sex before they're women (i.e., graduated, married, however it's defined)." In an ideal world theres, nothing wrong with that expectation but a standard sex ed class operates from a more realistic viewpoint like AOII Angel said. Sometimes, the good girls do have sex before they are women--that fact may fall short of the standard set by the program but that doesn't skip straight to slut shaming.

But you're right about it being EXTREMELY obvious that any sexual act with an unconscious girl is not permissible in any way. Additional education aside, that's a basic question of right and wrong. Even if these 2 were in a school that had NO sex ed at all, a 17-year-old and a 16-year-old would still be expected to know better and act accordingly.