Sororities and Feminism

[KDCat]

But that second part doesn't quite sit well with me as a sort of blanket excuse. The Greek system most definitely reinforces certain norms that underlie the objectification of women, and a few times/year some leaks to the media some horrible e-mail sent around a fraternity house in which women are referred to as objects (I am not going to link them all here, but the google will turn up enough in a quick search that I wouldn't chalk these up to isolated incidents). Of course, it's not the job of a sorority to fix the behavior of a fraternity, but it's hard to separate one half of the Greek system from the other.

Rape culture is a problem across most college campuses. The Greek system, like many other aspects of college culture and institutions, has been formed by that culture and contributed to forming that culture. However, the Greek system also has the institutional structure in place to push back against rape culture. Our collegiate members are young, but as alumnae and alumni we can encourage our members to be aware of the culture. We can demand higher standards of behavior from our men and zero tolerance for bad behavior. We can educate our members on what rape culture is and why it needs to go.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by KDCat

Rape culture is a problem across most college campuses. The Greek system, like many other aspects of college culture and institutions, has been formed by that culture and contributed to forming that culture. However, the Greek system also has the institutional structure in place to push back against rape culture. Our collegiate members are young, but as alumnae and alumni we can encourage our members to be aware of the culture. We can demand higher standards of behavior from our men and zero tolerance for bad behavior. We can educate our members on what rape culture is and why it needs to go.

I agree. Are we doing that?

[33girl]

I think we need to define what rape culture is, and what responsibility is.

[als463]

DeltaBetaBaby,
Nope. I'm not a feminist, even though I am ex-military. I do respect feminists but, I am probably pretty far from one. I have to say that there still isn't much equality in the military--though we can all pretend there is. Even when going to war, men worry about getting murdered. Women (at least my female battle buddies and I) worried about first getting raped/ tortured and then murdered. It just goes through your head. In the Army, the PT standards aren't even the same. Don't even get me started on sexual harassment. I could go on for days about the things I've seen and experienced in regards to being sexually harassed. I also think that there is this idea that women in the military have more of a masculine way about them (stereotype). I remember when I walked into a room full of ROTC cadets in college and they were all excited I was a decorated war veteran, their eagerness to meet the war veteran subsided when I walked in with manicured nails, long hair, make-up, and very feminine clothes. They had expected something much different. I think the military is a great discussion in regards to feminism but, I don't want to take over your topic because I think it's pretty great.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by als463

DeltaBetaBaby,
Nope. I'm not a feminist, even though I am ex-military. I do respect feminists but, I am probably pretty far from one. I have to say that there still isn't much equality in the military--though we can all pretend there is. Even when going to war, men worry about getting murdered. Women (at least my female battle buddies and I) worried about first getting raped/ tortured and then murdered. It just goes through your head. In the Army, the PT standards aren't even the same. Don't even get me started on sexual harassment. I could go on for days about the things I've seen and experienced in regards to being sexually harassed. I also think that there is this idea that women in the military have more of a masculine way about them (stereotype). I remember when I walked into a room full of ROTC cadets in college and they were all excited I was a decorated war veteran, their eagerness to meet the war veteran subsided when I walked in with manicured nails, long hair, make-up, and very feminine clothes. They had expected something much different. I think the military is a great discussion in regards to feminism but, I don't want to take over your topic because I think it's pretty great.

I wonder what exactly you think feminism means?

[33girl]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

I wonder what exactly you think feminism means?

Unfortunately, like many people in her age group, she probably equates feminism with man-hating and overentitlement (gender feminism) instead of what it really is, equal opportunities to prove yourself (equity feminism).

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Unfortunately, like many people in her age group, she probably equates feminism with man-hating and overentitlement (gender feminism) instead of what it really is, equal opportunities to prove yourself (equity feminism).

I've known women of every generation who are without a doubt feminists in terms of their support for the rights and equality of women, but who have not wanted to be called "feminist" because of the connotations and baggage that they perceive go with the term.

[als463]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

I wonder what exactly you think feminism means?

You sure have a knack for finding fault with everything I say. Why is that?

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by als463

You sure have a knack for finding fault with everything I say. Why is that?

I don't think I have had many conversations with you at all, so I'm not sure why you perceive that? You sound a little defensive. I really just wonder what you think feminism is since you are so sure you aren't a feminist.

[DGTess]

Originally Posted by als463

DeltaBetaBaby,
Nope. I'm not a feminist, even though I am ex-military. I do respect feminists but, I am probably pretty far from one. I have to say that there still isn't much equality in the military--though we can all pretend there is. Even when going to war, men worry about getting murdered. Women (at least my female battle buddies and I) worried about first getting raped/ tortured and then murdered. It just goes through your head. In the Army, the PT standards aren't even the same. Don't even get me started on sexual harassment. I could go on for days about the things I've seen and experienced in regards to being sexually harassed. I also think that there is this idea that women in the military have more of a masculine way about them (stereotype). I remember when I walked into a room full of ROTC cadets in college and they were all excited I was a decorated war veteran, their eagerness to meet the war veteran subsided when I walked in with manicured nails, long hair, make-up, and very feminine clothes. They had expected something much different. I think the military is a great discussion in regards to feminism but, I don't want to take over your topic because I think it's pretty great.

Not at all the experiences I had in a more-than-20-year military career. I was the first woman in my career field, and to this day I don't think there have been more than about two dozen women in the field. I found mostly respect, and the men apparently knew that I didn't get where I was by being the "weaker sex." I earned my place, and managed to put those who didn't believe me in their proper places.

I'm not sure I'm a feminist, but I've never allowed some perception of male- or female-dominated activities to interfere with where I wanted to be. Today, I don't join organizations that restrict membership. I even debated with myself whether I was being untrue by retaining my DG membership, but DG is a part of who I am.

So, too, is the school. I would not have been a DG at some SEC school, or a big state school with huge chapters ... but neither are those the schools I would have chosen to attend. I attended a small, intensive school that had only recently eliminated its women's college, but because I never questioned my right to be there, neither did anyone else.

[BabyPiNK_FL]

When I started to identify as a feminist* after beginning my Women's Studies courses, I did take a long hard look at my Greek organization and what it was doing to create strong, moral, outstanding women for my community. I found myself surrounded by dozens of them and so I learned that even with the culture that being "engaged" with fraternity men's causes, we were still leaving much better than the average woman on campus.

My chapter also took women that leaned toward being headstrong and I feel that we benefited from that more than many other chapters on campus because we were not so quick to "buy in" on the stereotypical concepts thrown at us.

My first sets of littles are some of the strongest feminists I know, along with a great deal of my pledge sisters. I'm very happy to have "grown up" within the chapter. But I do wonder about other institutions' chapters when I see the frenzies that are created on these boards from time to time. I'm not sure how universal my experience is.

*Although sometimes I lean more toward womanist due to the lack of inclusion of women of color.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

Someone asked upthread:

WHAT IS RAPE CULTURE?
In a rape culture, people are surrounded with images, language, laws, and other everyday phenomena that validate and perpetuate, rape. Rape culture includes jokes, TV, music, advertising, legal jargon, laws, words and imagery, that make violence against women and sexual coercion seem so normal that people believe that rape is inevitable. Rather than viewing the culture of rape as a problem to change, people in a rape culture think about the persistence of rape as “just the way things are.”

That sounds like the definitions of hazing that are stretchier than Grandma's underwear.

Originally Posted by BabyPiNK_FL

*Although sometimes I lean more toward womanist due to the lack of inclusion of women of color.

EXACTLY my point. You shouldn't have to feel that way. Many of the kind of feminists that I don't like go on and on about smash the patriarchy, but are so sheltered from the real world that they would run screaming the other way if they actually had to talk to (OMG) a person of color.