Sororities and Feminism
 

I've been thinking a lot about sororities, and how they do or do not support gender equality, and there's really not a lot of good writing out there, so I want to open it up to discussion, and maybe eventually I will write an essay on it.

Obviously, sororities are historically feminist, in that they were one way that women supported on another on male-dominated college campuses, as well as a reaction or counterpart to the formation of fraternities. I think networks of women are still very important, and certainly that's something provided by sororities, but I think that a lot of negative stuff has crept in over the years as well.

The most obvious is the emphasis on appearance, especially during recruitment. I know that some will argue that it's like a job interview, putting your best foot forward, etc., but where this is a problem, from an equality perspective, is all the stuff that women are expected to do that men aren't. Both a male and female PNM are expected, for example, to dress appropriately and be clean and well-groomed. But only the female PNM is expected to wear make-up, go tanning, etc.

Now, I think most people around these parts know that a lot of the big SEC rushes depend on who you know before you ever set foot in the door, but to an outsider, doesn't it seem that you are judged on thirty minutes of conversation? And is the perception a problem, whether or not it is reality? Aren't we then turning off the potential PNM's (PPNM's?) who won't rush for fear of being judged thusly.

I'm also unsure if serenades for social events still exist in a lot of places. They've been eliminated by my alma mater, but basically, women would dress in slutty clothing and go sing to the fraternities in hopes of getting on their social calendar. The men would respond by coming over and singing as well, but the obvious objectification only went on direction.

There's also some internal slut-shaming that I find pretty problematic, like women going to standards for sleeping with too many frat boys. Again, I am of two minds here: on one hand, not all sexual behavior is destructive. On the other, such a pattern of behavior in a 19-year-old *may* indicate a problem, and genuinely lending a sisterly hand can be crucial. I'd probably have to think more on ways to address things like this in a positive manner.

Now, I suppose that everything I've written presupposes that women want gender equality, and I know that's not true, either, but I'd like to think that our organizations should support feminism as best they can.

So, I'm interested in everyone's thoughts. I think this is one facet of a larger topic rolling around in my head, that of how greek organizations remain relevant in a changing world, and what is really our mission in the year 2013.

You know, I've actually had this type of discussion with another sorority friend of mine (a Theta Phi Alpha Alumna who is also a doctoral student). She considers herself to be a feminist and I do not consider myself to be one. I think that, while the idea of sororities began to support women in a male-dominated society, they can be viewed by some as the opposite of a feminist movement. How many young women choose to join because they want to meet their future husband or attend parties in the hopes to be the next Stepford wife? Am I saying that is right? No. Do I believe that every woman who joins is like that? Of course not. I know there are many women out there who are strong and incredible leaders. Those are the women who prove that sororities are a great way to hone their skills. I'm a proud sorority woman--whatever that may mean to various people.

Great topic, DBB.

DeltaBetaBaby: "Now, I think most people around these parts know that a lot of the big SEC rushes depend on who you know before you ever set foot in the door, but to an outsider, doesn't it seem that you are judged on thirty minutes of conversation? And is the perception a problem, whether or not it is reality? Aren't we then turning off the potential PNM's (PPNM's?) who won't rush for fear of being judged thusly.

I had similar experiences with job interviews. The difference is that a PNM will stand a chance of changing any preconceived notions that a recommendation might have given, whereas if whomever reads your resume' and job application is not interested enough to extend you an interview, that is it. You don't have the chance for conversation.

I'm also unsure if serenades for social events still exist in a lot of places. They've been eliminated by my alma mater, but basically, women would dress in slutty clothing and go sing to the fraternities in hopes of getting on their social calendar. The men would respond by coming over and singing as well, but the obvious objectification only went on direction."

At FSU the sororities did not dress slutty when they serenaded. I am not sure if serenades still occur.

Sororities, like anything else, are not going to appeal to everyone. Those that are interested in joining a sorority(and are in the know) will do what is necessary to give themselves an advantage (or at least level the playing field), just as one would when seeking a desired job.I think it is about sisters supporting sisters, which extends to Panhellenic and Pan-Hellenic sisters as well.

This is a timely question as all our groups and NPC have been studying relevance for a number of years. What was relevant for our founders certainly has changed in some ways over the last 100 plus years. But are there core values that have remained the same but are just manifested indifferent ways in today's society? I think that's the key. How to we portray truth, honesty,integrity, sympathy, sisterhood today? The world has changed and so must we but while still supporting women in the ways they need today. Our founders were all looking for a support mechanism that wasn't readily available in their circles. I think we are today as well - but maybe in different ways for some.

What's wrong with having one of the reasons for joining a group be to meet appropriate nice and educated men who might make good husbands? I don't think wanting to be happily married with children makes you less of a woman. Isn't feminism supposed to be about giving women choices to do what they want in life?

OldRow,
I truly agree with you on that one. I never said it was wrong. Personally, I agree that college is a great place to meet your future mate because you both clearly have some things in common like wanting to further your education and (should he be a fraternity man) wanting to be philanthropic. I'm not saying this is bad in any way--so, I hope that's not how my statement came off. What I'm saying is that some people might argue that joining a sorority in order to eventually find a future husband is anything but, being about feminism. I'll admit that when I went to college, I already decided I would not marry a man who did not have a college degree. Does that make me a bad person or someone who wants a man to take care of me? No. That's just my preference.

It's important to look at what sororites are on a national level when it comes to things like this, because I feel like this sort of cultural thing varies greatly between chapters and campuses. Are there any solid numbers for average Panhellenic chapter size or average number of PNMs? A quick google search didn't really get me anything.

My small chapter at a small technical school very much supported and encouraged me to become a better woman. Before finding us, many of my chapter sisters (myself as well) were the "I don't like girls" type and had no interest in sororities before getting to campus. We all came to our senses and realized it wasn't women we disliked, but drama. In this way, my sorority has taught me to love other women and definitely how to understand/emphasize with/get along with them. I know we had some really great talks about problems women have in friendships with each other and were better off for it.

Meanwhile, a gorgeous SEC chapter of 500 girls who have had a gaggle of girlfriends since they were in elementary school probably faces different challenges. I would hope that all chapters aspire to live their values and the perceptions of others are incorrect, but I have no experience in that sort of large scale recruitment/chapter.

Very interesting perspective and something that I've never thought of before.

Isn't this always true, though, not just when Greek Life is involved?

I mean, I probably wouldn't go tanning for a job interview, but most women would probably wear some makeup and spend some time doing their hair. In fact, many women do this every single day. I think this is somewhat natural. For instance, women usually have longer hair than men - which may take more time to groom. Women may have to blow dry and straighten/curl/etc their hair, when men can usually just let their hair dry because it only takes five minutes to do so.

Women, in general, spend much more time grooming themselves than men. I'm sure most men who are attending fraternity rush parties haven't gone out and gotten their nails done or spent much time contemplating their outfits. However, sorority women (especially in the SEC or other competitive schools), are usually advised to spend lots of time planning outfits, possibly getting their nails done, getting their hair cut/colored, etc.

However, this is an everyday occurrence. Women, in general, are going to spend much more time getting ready for a date than men. And I think that it is somewhat of an equality issue. For me, personally, I grew up on a farm. Before I prepared for sorority recruitment, I didn't even know what a "cocktail" dress was when I was looking for something to wear on pref day. I'd love to throw my hair up in a ponytail, have no makeup on, wear jeans and a t shirt and show my true personality. However, I can't do that if I want to be judged on the same level as the girls who are decked out in Lily Pulitzer dresses and spent two hours on their hair. Men don't have to work nearly as hard to be on the same level as other men.

Back in the day - in the south, some schools only begrudgingly gave in to legislators in allowing women in to campus. Sometimes this was done by limiting the classes they could take - but also in limiting their access to campus. In the early 20th century - it would not have been seemly for a young lady to live alone or in a boarding house. Schools avoided having to deal with coeds by not allowing for dormitories for women. A woman who wanted to attend would need to find a family member living nearby. Two groups stepped up to address this - sororities and the Scottish Rite. The origins of the southern manor sorority houses are in providing comparable safe housing.

ETA: I think that some of the origins of the emphasis on rec letters and knowing someone in the house already comes from feeling like new members would be new roommates. In the case of the old sleeping porches - this might be true for the whole chapter.

Slutty Clothing
 

Totally resenting that comment.

Not sure what you school you went to nor where you got notion of "slutty clothing" for serenades, but, I have never heard of any such a thing. We serenaded fraternities. It was fun. And even in the god awful heat and humidity, we NEVER wore "slutty clothing." Never once did I feel objectified. We laughed, they laughed. What we supposed to wear burqas? After pledging in the summer's heat and monsoons, it is hot!

The women that I serenaded with are now members of prestigious neonatal clinics, lawyers, mothers, world travelers, decorated district teachers, professionals and more.

Slut Slamming
 

Your choice of words is less than eloquent and perpetuates the stereotypes that we work so hard to eliminate here. From my experience, what you mention above is rare. Just my experience. We always let a woman lead her own personal life in the chapter that I belonged to.

LOL - I have had several seniors not in the sororities tell me that they wish they had a big sister who supported them - or who had told them they were doing something stupid when they were a freshman.

I know!!! I love looking good and spend a lot of time on my appearance every day. I was that way before I ever joined and would be that way even if I were not in a sorority. It makes me feel good to look good.

Haha. I think a lot of girls can benefit from having someone tell them to watch out for things. There are so many new experiences and men who will prey on vulnerable freshmen and a girl can get really messed up before she knows it if she doesn't have good friends to help her out. I think it's more like having some guardian angels who have common interests and goals and want to watch out for you and your feelings so you don't get hurt.

Don't even kid yourself. LOTS of my guy friends are just as scrupulous with their tanning and workouts as any girl is with makeup. There is much, much, MUCH more pressure on men these days to maintain their appearances than there used to be.

DBB is not talking about a super naive freshman who just fell off the turnip truck and hasn't done anything below the waist who believes the guy when he says he just wants to go back to his room "to talk." We're talking about women who like sex, who find it physically and mentally pleasurable, and who don't feel they need to be pinned or someone's "girlfriend" to enjoy it. Some women can sleep with 100 guys and be the most mentally happy and stable girl out there. Some women can sleep with one guy and be completely f'ed up. Different strokes for different folks.

Some chapters are open minded about this, but some are not, and some are selective about it. In other words, if you sleep with a bunch of fraternity guys that's OK, but if you sleep with townies you're a whore and get your pin pulled.

Ah well, besides the fact that feminism is not equal to promiscuous, just like many women are surprised that we recommend they clean up their Facebook pages before recruitment - that kind of behavior would be frowned on in many circles and may hamper a woman's future choice of careers (in law, medicine, or education or if they need a security clearance, for example). It begs the question about their decision making process. I don't think anyone would be surprised to find it frowned upon on my campus.

In my experience, "slut-shaming" has little to no effect on that type, but the behavior in the extreme can be a sign of other problems, and it is good to have someone to talk to about it or even counseling. (Especially if we are talking about someone just starting college as a freshman?)

I thought by feminism - the discussion was to be about advances and leadership in the workplace or education?