Domestic Violence

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by southernbelle14

I just read this thread and love the discussion that's gone on.
I do have something that I'm having trouble with...
In no circumstance do I condone violence, whether it is male on female or reversed. But I'm just not sure that realistically woman on man domestic violence should be viewed the same as man on woman. I mean, generally men are significantly stronger than women. If a girl tries to compete with guy physically they pretty much always lose. When a girl playfully hits a guy, even if it's pretty hard in her opinion, the guy will laugh most of the time about how pathetic it was. But I, as well as many other women I know and I'm sure many I don't know, have been joking around with a guy where they will hold me down to tickle me or something equally innocent and end up actually causing pain. They certainly do not intend to do so, but it still happens. Men are, in general, more capable of causing real damage to a woman than a woman is of causing real damage to a man. At least this is how it seems to me. If I am completely off here, please let me know and help me to better understand.

What if a woman attacks a man who is physically weaker than she is? Is that still cute?

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

What if a woman attacks a man who is physically weaker than she is? Is that still cute?

Or what if a little petite thing uses a bat, knife, or gun against a man?

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by southernbelle14

I just read this thread and love the discussion that's gone on.
I do have something that I'm having trouble with...
In no circumstance do I condone violence, whether it is male on female or reversed. But I'm just not sure that realistically woman on man domestic violence should be viewed the same as man on woman. I mean, generally men are significantly stronger than women. If a girl tries to compete with guy physically they pretty much always lose. When a girl playfully hits a guy, even if it's pretty hard in her opinion, the guy will laugh most of the time about how pathetic it was. But I, as well as many other women I know and I'm sure many I don't know, have been joking around with a guy where they will hold me down to tickle me or something equally innocent and end up actually causing pain. They certainly do not intend to do so, but it still happens. Men are, in general, more capable of causing real damage to a woman than a woman is of causing real damage to a man. At least this is how it seems to me. If I am completely off here, please let me know and help me to better understand.

You're talking about playful hitting.

Domestic abuse is a lot of things, but playful it isn't. And abuse isn't just physical, it's emotional, sexual, etc. In my experience, women and men both have the capacity to be extraordinarily cruel.

And yes, I've represented male victims of domestic abuse whose spouse was about 1/3 their size. Abuse takes all shapes and sizes and forms.

[Cen1aur 1963]

Originally Posted by southernbelle14

I just read this thread and love the discussion that's gone on.
I do have something that I'm having trouble with...
In no circumstance do I condone violence, whether it is male on female or reversed. But I'm just not sure that realistically woman on man domestic violence should be viewed the same as man on woman. I mean, generally men are significantly stronger than women. If a girl tries to compete with guy physically they pretty much always lose. When a girl playfully hits a guy, even if it's pretty hard in her opinion, the guy will laugh most of the time about how pathetic it was. But I, as well as many other women I know and I'm sure many I don't know, have been joking around with a guy where they will hold me down to tickle me or something equally innocent and end up actually causing pain. They certainly do not intend to do so, but it still happens. Men are, in general, more capable of causing real damage to a woman than a woman is of causing real damage to a man. At least this is how it seems to me. If I am completely off here, please let me know and help me to better understand.

What if the woman is trained in something and the dude isn't? I'd hate to try some shit on Muhammad Ali's daughter.

[Psi U MC Vito]

^^ I was going to ask about the use of weapons. Even something like a frying pan.

[christiangirl]

Originally Posted by Psi U MC Vito

^^ I was going to ask about the use of weapons. Even something like a frying pan.

*cough*Gritball*cough*

ETA: Thanks for bringing this up, southernbelle14. It's honestly good food for thought. It sounds like you're saying that we should treat M-->W DV differently (i.e., more severely) than W-->DV because the woman will likely cause less damage. In other words, it sounds like the crime should be judged based on the outcome rather than intent. (Let me know if that's not what you meant.) There were some good points posed up there--would you feel the same if a woman assaulted a man smaller or physically weaker than herself? Used a weapon? If the man was larger, but she used her nails to scratch his eyes and blind him?

I'll take it a step further...what if just the intent was greater? Would you still feel the same looking at a man physically assaulting a woman with intent to hurt her vs. a woman physically assaulting a man with intent to kill him? Even if the assaultive woman hurt her male victim LESS than the assaultive man hurt his female victim, there is a reason why attempted murder is punished more harshly than "regular" assault. That being said, there would be a good reason why DV is just as bad on both sides--malicious intent to hurt another person is just as wrong, no matter how extensive the actual damage is. That's why I view W-->M DV as equal to all the other kinds.

[southernbelle14]

Originally Posted by christiangirl

*cough*Gritball*cough*

ETA: Thanks for bringing this up, southernbelle14. It's honestly good food for thought. It sounds like you're saying that we should treat M-->W DV differently (i.e., more severely) than W-->DV because the woman will likely cause less damage. In other words, it sounds like the crime should be judged based on the outcome rather than intent. (Let me know if that's not what you meant.) There were some good points posed up there--would you feel the same if a woman assaulted a man smaller or physically weaker than herself? Used a weapon? If the man was larger, but she used her nails to scratch his eyes and blind him?

I'll take it a step further...what if just the intent was greater? Would you still feel the same looking at a man physically assaulting a woman with intent to hurt her vs. a woman physically assaulting a man with intent to kill him? Even if the assaultive woman hurt her male victim LESS than the assaultive man hurt his female victim, there is a reason why attempted murder is punished more harshly than "regular" assault. That being said, there would be a good reason why DV is just as bad on both sides--malicious intent to hurt another person is just as wrong, no matter how extensive the actual damage is. That's why I view W-->M DV as equal to all the other kinds.

I see your point. I didn't really think about it as determining it based on the outcome, but you're right. I guess it's just difficult to see it that way because the way society portrays gender roles and domestic violence.

[christiangirl]

Originally Posted by southernbelle14

I guess it's just difficult to see it that way because the way society portrays gender roles and domestic violence.

That's fair. Our society tends to see women as delicate creatures who need male protection, so violence against us is "worse." I don't believe that (and think it's totally stupid, sexist, etc) but I can see why another person would. You could say the same of violence against children. I would wager most if not all people we know would say abusing a child is worse than abusing an adult and thus should be punished more harshly. That is because of how our society views children--they are precious and should be valued and cherished, not harmed. However (as my professor brought up yesteray), there are countries where children have no rights. Adults can do whatever they want to them and dare anyone to say anything about it. To me, that's awful but I have to remember I feel that way because I grew up here. Everything in context.

[preciousjeni]

There should be no difference in the way DV is prosecuted whether the perpetrator is a man or a woman. The degree to which injury occurs should (and is) the basis for the severity of sentencing.

As other posters have said, a gun in the hand of a man or a woman inflicts the same injury.

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by southernbelle14

I see your point. I didn't really think about it as determining it based on the outcome, but you're right. I guess it's just difficult to see it that way because the way society portrays gender roles and domestic violence.

Definitely, to the bold - the lasting legacies of institutional patriarchy/misogyny can often be pernicious in unseen ways, including playing a role in underreporting abuse of men.

There's no such thing as misandry, but that doesn't mean that specific, individual men aren't abused or abased, or subject to a power imbalance.

[Psi U MC Vito]

I haven't read the entire thread yet, but has it been discussed yet that violence doesn't have to be physical?

[knight_shadow]

Doesn't really fall under the "domestic violence" umbrella, but...

Has anyone seen the video of the woman who got punched on the bus in Cleveland?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-dRSqJRI_Y

This is another instance of not getting in someone's face (male or female) unless you're prepared to fight that person.

[Kevin]

On the one hand, I don't feel sorry for her. She put her hands on a public employee, a bus driver, no less, who is charged with the safety of everyone on that bus. On the other hand, the bus driver should be fired. It's not his place to use force like that. Call the police.

Both should be charged criminally.

[33girl]

I could understand if the bus had been moving and he shoved her out of the way because he was afraid of an accident...that would be an understandable involuntary reflex...but the bus was stopped dude, call the police and have them haul her away.

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

A lot of people would laugh if they saw similar ads for woman-on-man, man-on-man, and woman-on-woman violence.

My former roommate was in an abusive relationship with her girlfriend prior to her moving in with us. DV within same-sex relationships is extremely underreported; and there are a few factors for this--financial dependence is a huge issue, far more than I would have expected it to be.

I would be interested in discussing how same-sex DV is ignored or hidden. I'm super glad we got past the "just leave" nonsense earlier.