Domestic Violence

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Low C Sharp

And for a lot of those people, it is true.

Yes and no one knows what they "would do" until they actually do it.

IrishLake, I appreciate your honesty. However, I doubt the hugs and love that you are receiving would be sent out if you were a GC man talking about hitting his wife.

[VandalSquirrel]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Yes and no one knows what they "would do" until they actually do it.

IrishLake, I appreciate your honesty. However, I doubt the hugs and love that you are receiving would be sent out if you were a GC man talking about hitting his wife.

You don't know the motivation or reason for why I posted my "hugs and love" so whether or not I'd post that for a man hitting his partner is nothing to doubt since that hasn't happened, yet. Someone who took the courage to be open and honest in sharing something so personal in relation to this topic is who I'm sending huge and love to, I'm supporting the action of bringing it into the open, not whether or not I agree with their actions.

[DrPhil]

VandalSquirrel, regardless of whatever, I doubt that a GC man who shared what IrishLake shared would receive the response that she has received. That gendered response to intimate partner violence is why I created this thread.

[VandalSquirrel]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

VandalSquirrel, regardless of whatever, I doubt that a GC man who shared what IrishLake shared would receive the response that she has received. That gendered response to intimate partner violence is why I created this thread.

There are less men here than women to begin with, but if say, Senusret I posted something similar I'd support him as well. I'll definitely put out there I have more knowledge about same sex partner violence than the average GCer and that is often less reported and less understood than woman on man heterosexual DV.

[DrPhil]

Man-on-woman violence tends to be perceived differently than woman-on-man, man-on-man, and woman-on-woman violence. If a GC man shared the lesson that he and his wife learned after a violent altercation in which he punched her, he was arrested, and his wife felt bad seeing him in court--that would receive a different response from GCers. If a GC man said everything that IrishLake said but reversed the genders, it would receive a different response from GCers.

I appreciate IrishLake's honesty so my posts are not about her. It is simply the case that the responses to her post are extremely common. It is extremely common for people to respond to women in a manner that they tend not to respond to men. That includes the fact that women are more likely to share their experiences as the abusee or the abuser than men are. Men would not share if they were abused and they would not share if they abused someone else (even if they learned a huge lesson from it and it strengthened the relationship).

[christiangirl]

Originally Posted by Tulip86

IrishLake, thank you so much for sharing that.

I second this. I don't think you've "brought shame" on anyone. Despite the negativity of the experience, it was told openly and honestly for others to learn from and that is the commendable part.

Originally Posted by DrPhil

VandalSquirrel, regardless of whatever, I doubt that a GC man who shared what IrishLake shared would receive the response that she has received. That gendered response to intimate partner violence is why I created this thread.

While this may be true, I think the reasons behind the punch were what elicited seemingly positive responses. While no one has flat out said they condone hitting another person regardless of the reason, everyone can understand and empathize with a woman who was faced with a man about to leave with her child. This is also a "gendered response" because we are empathizing with the "mama bear" reaction and assuming the father would not protect his child just as fiercely in the same situation. However, I would like to think that, if DS told a story where a woman was attempting to take his child away and he physically stopped her, he may not get "hugs and love" (A GC man would likely get a fist bump gif before getting hugs and love no matter the topic) but usernames would not immediately criminalize him either.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by christiangirl

This is also a "gendered response" because we are empathizing with the "mama bear" reaction and assuming the father would not protect his child just as fiercely in the same situation.

Exactly.

I would add "should not protect" to the "would not protect."

Originally Posted by christiangirl

However, I would like to think that, if...told a story where a woman was attempting to take his child away and he physically stopped her, he may not get "hugs and love" (A GC man would likely get a fist bump gif before getting hugs and love no matter the topic) but usernames would not immediately criminalize him either.

I don't think we disagree on the larger point that I am making. I will just add:

A GC man who hit the mother of his child to keep her from leaving with the child (rhetorical question: How often do women threaten to leave, or actually leave, with the children?) would probably be told in a loving/brofist/"we aren't judging you and thanks for your honesty" way that he should have just called the police.

No one in this thread justified (we empathize and sympathize) what happened with IrishLake and IrishLake is thankful that it was a learning experience on both sides. Yet and still, remember what people said earlier in this thread about the different ways that abuse manifests and how abuse starts off small and initially seems explanable and understandable, etc.? The different ways that abuse manifests tends to be applied to man-on-woman abuse whereas woman-on-man abuse is often seen as "it must have happened for a GOOD reason...it won't happen again because the initial problem has been solved."

As evidenced by the beginning of your post:

Originally Posted by christiangirl

While this may be true, I think the reasons behind the punch were what elicited seemingly positive responses. While no one has flat out said they condone hitting another person regardless of the reason, everyone can understand and empathize with a woman who was faced with a man about to leave with her child.This is also a "gendered response" because we are empathizing with the "mama bear" reaction and assuming the father would not protect his child just as fiercely in the same situation

[Cen1aur 1963]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Man-on-woman violence tends to be perceived differently than woman-on-man, man-on-man, and woman-on-woman violence. If a GC man shared the lesson that he and his wife learned after a violent altercation in which he punched her, he was arrested, and his wife felt bad seeing him in court--that would receive a different response from GCers. If a GC man said everything that IrishLake said but reversed the genders, it would receive a different response from GCers.

I appreciate IrishLake's honesty so my posts are not about her. It is simply the case that the responses to her post are extremely common. It is extremely common for people to respond to women in a manner that they tend not to respond to men. That includes the fact that women are more likely to share their experiences as the abusee or the abuser than men are. Men would not share if they were abused and they would not share if they abused someone else (even if they learned a huge lesson from it and it strengthened the relationship).

I agree with all of this. I read this entire thread before work this morning, but I didn't have time to respond. That's the bad thing about this board, you almost have to keep checking it for good chatting sessions, otherwise you miss out LOL. This is one that I missed. Dr. Phil, I feel you on this. I've never been abused in a relationship and I've never hit a woman, but I have seen my pops beat on my mom several times. I was just a kid then, and I wasn't much older than 7 or 8 when they finally divorced. It was one of those things that she eventually got tired of. I think sometimes we live in a bad situation for so long that it becomes normal when in reality it isn't. When you mentioned the chuckling if it was a female beating on a dude, I'll admit, I'd probably laugh at that too. It's almost a normal response from a lot of dudes, but at the same time a wrong response. But, yeah, I agree with this all the way.

[I2K Beta Mu]

Originally Posted by Cen1aur 1963

I agree with all of this. I read this entire thread before work this morning, but I didn't have time to respond. That's the bad thing about this board, you almost have to keep checking it for good chatting sessions, otherwise you miss out LOL. This is one that I missed. Dr. Phil, I feel you on this. I've never been abused in a relationship and I've never hit a woman, but I have seen my pops beat on my mom several times. I was just a kid then, and I wasn't much older than 7 or 8 when they finally divorced. It was one of those things that she eventually got tired of. I think sometimes we live in a bad situation for so long that it becomes normal when in reality it isn't. When you mentioned the chuckling if it was a female beating on a dude, I'll admit, I'd probably laugh at that too. It's almost a normal response from a lot of dudes, but at the same time a wrong response. But, yeah, I agree with this all the way.

I'm going to quote my old post. There are different kinds of domestic violence, it doesn't all center around physical and verbal. I'm just talking based on shit I saw and lived....physical abuse. I remember seeing the shit when I was four, my pops left shortly after that. I could have been older, but I can't remember exactly. I just know I was young as hell, and I remember seeing dude fuck up my mom on occasion. I'm sure dude said some verbal shit, but the physical part of it stood out too much for me to even remember wtf the dude said to her in the process. If somebody is getting their ass beat, that's one thing, but if they stay, that's their decision. I know it's not easy to just pack up and bounce for some. Some it is, but for others it isn't. Either way, if the person decides they want to stay or go for whatever reason, who made that choice for them? With my mom, I asked her why didn't she leave dude, and she told me that we were involved and it's different when you have kids involved. I told her that should have been the very reason for her to leave. My girl for example, who was in an abusive relationship a few years before she met me. She's got some deep seeded issues with it. She fought the dude back, and bounced. Never looking back. It depends on the situation, and the person, but she made the decision to leave. Some folks would bounce and not fuck around with an abusive partner, some wouldn't. If you stay, dude or female didn't make you stay.

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

VandalSquirrel, regardless of whatever, I doubt that a GC man who shared what IrishLake shared would receive the response that she has received. That gendered response to intimate partner violence is why I created this thread.

Yep.

See: Chris Brown. Even after repeated apologies and saying that he's learned from the experience, he is still demonized by many people.

*This is not me condoning his actions.

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

I agree and I also do not condone his actions.

I still think that Rihanna was probably acting out of control in the car and he reacted in a way to stop her from doing whatever he was doing. That doesn't make it okay but it makes it self-defense (correct??) even if it appears that he went too far in the self-defense. Depending on who I say that around, some people will agree and some people will say "THERE IS NEVER A REASON...NEVER A REASON." Sure, there is never a reason but sometimes "I don't condone it but I understand" can be applied to both woman-on-man and man-on-woman intimate partner violence. Or...can it?

I completely agree. Rihanna came out of this scot-free, but I think there had to be a DAMN good reason for him to put both of their lives in jeopardy in that car.

Now -- I would never hit a woman. Ever. However, some women* take advantage of that and come at men with the "Whatchu gon' do? Hit me? I wish you would! Try it. I wish you would!"

Say that enough times and you'll find someone who will take you up on your offer.

ETA: Women aren't the only ones taking advantage.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

I completely agree. Rihanna came out of this scot-free, but I think there had to be a DAMN good reason for him to put both of their lives in jeopardy in that car.

Now -- I would never hit a woman. Ever. However, some women take advantage of that and come at men with the "Whatchu gon' do? Hit me? I wish you would! Try it. I wish you would!"

Say that enough times and you'll find someone who will take you up on your offer.

Exactly. I knew a man whose crazy wife used to get angry and mess with the steering wheeling, the car key, and attempt to place the car in something other than drive when they were driving on the highway with their child in the backseat. He said it took everything in him to not punch the shit out of her for the safety of everyone in the car. Thankfully, he was able to smack her hands out the way and beg her to stop. He waited until they got home and he finally filed for divorce. The things is, guess who got custody of the child? Not the father because he apparently could not prove that she was an unfit parent. Guess who would have possibly been arrested had the wife been punched and the police been called? In most jurisdictions, the husband or both of them. I wonder what would have happened if he had not punched her but called the police because she was behaving dangerously on the highway.

[*winter*]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

Now -- I would never hit a woman. Ever. However, some women* take advantage of that and come at men with the "Whatchu gon' do? Hit me? I wish you would! Try it. I wish you would!"

Say that enough times and you'll find someone who will take you up on your offer.

I'm having flashbacks of that video of the McDonald's employee beating an irate female customer with a crowbar! Did she "deserve" it? No...but in this society, where many, many people are teetering on the edge of sanity, it is NOT smart to start screaming "DO SOMETHIN! DO SOMETHIN!" 2 inches from someone's face...

OT, but I just thought of that...Actually kind of on topic, since violence by women is escalating, and is bound to translate as an increase of women AS batterers.

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by *winter*

I'm having flashbacks of that video of the McDonald's employee beating an irate female customer with a crowbar! Did she "deserve" it? No...but in this society, where many, many people are teetering on the edge of sanity, it is NOT smart to start screaming "DO SOMETHIN! DO SOMETHIN!" 2 inches from someone's face...

OT, but I just thought of that...Actually kind of on topic, since violence by women is escalating, and is bound to translate as an increase of women AS batterers.

I remember that. She jumped on the counter and into the kitchen area. Did she think they were NOT going to try to contain her? Unfortunately, she confronted the wrong individual.