B.E. article on APhiA Arizona Boycott.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by sigmadiva

and we can debate the academic / philosophical issue all day, but the bottom line is that there are illegal immigrants here, be they brown, white, black, what-have-you, with money or no money, and the issue will need to get resolved.

There is nothing academic or philosophical about what I typed and you are not going to reduce my comments to that. The bottom line is that you now grasp the point that country of origin, race and ethnicity, AND socioeconomic status matter in the illegal immigration debate.

Originally Posted by sigmadiva

I can tell you that on a practical day-to-day basis I don't think people are really worried about the socioeconomic concerns. I think all they see are people moving in their area who they are already suspicious about, and the fact they the may not be legal presents a problem.

My idea of practical day-to-day completely differs from yours. Do you not listen to the things that people say about illegal immigrants? The things that people say go far beyond whether or not someone has a visa or have overstayed their visa. And the issue of suspicion goes back to racial and ethnic profiling because it mostly occurs in areas with brown and black immigrants regardless of visa status.

Originally Posted by sigmadiva

For me personally, what I see is increasing violence coming out of Mexico, pushing its way to the US. I live in a border state, and I'm about 6 hours from the border, so the issue literally is hitting close to home to me. I don't want that violence here. If it takes tougher immigration laws to help stop it, then I'm going for the tougher immigration laws.

As I said in the post that you quoted: "Facing the inequality of the immigration debate doesn't mean that we agree with illegal immigration and are opposed to regulations. It means that we are being HONEST about the issues at hand and the pros and cons of the laws that are enacted. Put our brains and social consciousness to good use."

Originally Posted by sigmadiva

Now, to be completely flippant

Don't be. Anyway, this is now a very circular discussion.

LET THE PARTY BEGIN http://www.politicsdaily.com/2010/07...ed-illegal-im/

The FUN thing about this list is that some of the people on it are here legally. Woohoo! Ain't no party like an immigrant party, 'cause an immigrant party don't stop!

[sigmadiva]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

There is nothing academic or philosophical about what I typed and you are not going to reduce my comments to that.

Sorry about that. I thought that I was giving you a compliment.

The bottom line is that you now grasp the point that country of origin, race and ethnicity, AND socioeconomic status matter in the illegal immigration debate.

I guess, to a point. I just don't think it is always so cut and dry based strictly on race / ethnicity as you are trying to make it. There may be some tendencies to trends, but I also think there are a lot of exceptions to the rule.

My idea of practical day-to-day completely differs from yours.

Yeah, I think we (you and I) have come to this conclusion before in other issues that we have discussed.

Do you not listen to the things that people say about illegal immigrants? The things that people say go far beyond whether or not someone has a visa or have overstayed their visa. And the issue of suspicion goes back to racial and ethnic profiling because it mostly occurs in areas with brown and black immigrants regardless of visa status.

Have you not experienced the arrogance of illegal immigrants in this country towards you, as a Black American? I mean, some of these people come over here, they don't speak the language, don't want to assimilate and socialize with you, and yet they want to look down their nose at you like being a Black American is a second class citizen when they have no rights in this country. It goes both ways sister.

As I said in the post that you quoted: "Facing the inequality of the immigration debate doesn't mean that we agree with illegal immigration and are opposed to regulations. It means that we are being HONEST about the issues at hand and the pros and cons of the laws that are enacted. Put our brains and social consciousness to good use."

This is good, but it won't happen. People won't think rationally about the issue, they are just going to go with how they "feel".

Anyway, this is now a very circular discussion.

Yup!

LET THE PARTY BEGIN http://www.politicsdaily.com/2010/07...ed-illegal-im/

The FUN thing about this list is that some of the people on it are here legally. Woohoo! Ain't no party like an immigrant party, 'cause an immigrant party don't stop!

Good stuff!!!

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by sigmadiva

Sorry about that. I thought that I was giving you a compliment.

The context wasn't complimentary.

Originally Posted by sigmadiva

I guess, to a point. I just don't think it is always so cut and dry based strictly on race / ethnicity as you are trying to make it. There may be some tendencies to trends, but I also think there are a lot of exceptions to the rule.

Strictly? The part of my post that you quoted stated "country of origin, race and ethnicity, AND socioeconomic status."

The very nature of trends is that there are exceptions. The trends are more important to me for the purpose of this discussion because the illegal immigration debate confuses trends with exceptions, as evidenced by the following:

Originally Posted by sigmadiva

Have you not experienced the arrogance of illegal immigrants in this country towards you, as a Black American? I mean, some of these people come over here, they don't speak the language, don't want to assimilate and socialize with you, and yet they want to look down their nose at you like being a Black American is a second class citizen when they have no rights in this country.

LOL. I hope you know that you have proven my points. So, you just don't LIKE them or something? You've had enough of being treated like a negroid by white folks (in general) and will be darned if those newbies come here illegally and treat you like a negroid? Do you really give a darn about how they perceive you as a Black American? Really? Illegal immigrants aren't the only people here who don't speak the language and don't want to assimilate or socialize with you. Let the record show that assimilating and socializing with Black people has always been the bottom of the totem pole when it comes to living in the America. Surely your experience as a Black American has given you thicker skin than to care about such things.

[sigmadiva]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

The context wasn't complimentary.



Strictly? The part of my post that you quoted stated "country of origin, race and ethnicity, AND socioeconomic status."

The very nature of trends is that there are exceptions. The trends are more important to me for the purpose of this discussion because the illegal immigration debate confuses trends with exceptions, as evidenced by the following:

Right, they are important to you. But, to the people of Arizona, they are not. They are the one who are going to vote and support this law.

And, quite frankly, people don't want to discuss. They want action. They want something done, however they perceive it.

LOL. I hope you know that you have proven my points. So, you just don't LIKE them or something?

Oh on the contrary. I've dated them, "or something".

You've had enough of being treated like a negroid by white folks (in general) and will be darned if those newbies come here illegally and treat you like a negroid? Do you really give a darn about how they perceive you as a Black American? Really?

Yes, I do, because their perception of Black Americans usually come from stereotypes that they have seen on TV - rap music, sagging pants, "baby mama drama". There is more to Black culture and history in this country than what they get. So yeah, it does bother me.

Illegal immigrants aren't the only people here who don't speak the language and don't want to assimilate or socialize with you.

Yes, I agree.

Let the record show that assimilating and socializing with Black people has always been the bottom of the totem pole when it comes to living in the America.

The Kardashians don't seem to think so!

Surely your experience as a Black American has given you thicker skin than to care about such things.

Oh yes, I do have thick skin. And I do care about "such things". I care about my community and who is coming into it and what they are doing. I care about my state and my country because my ancestors have had an (unsung) influence in shaping both. I care very much. I know who I am and where I come from. I care.