Nun excommunicated for allowing abortion to save the life of a mother

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by dekeguy

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As to the differences between the OT and NT God, I always figured that God reveals Himself to us as we are capable of understanding Him. He doesn't change, we just get a little better at understanding Him.

I wouldn't argue that, however there's a pretty big personality shift from A to B throughout. Although if you take the word Elohim literally it is
plural. That could explain a lot...

As to eternal torment, our late Pope John Paul II had a very interesting take on eternal damnation. He said, "Because our holy mother the church tells us so we must believe that there is a hell. We are not, however, required to believe that there is anyone in it."
A very profound observation to my thinking.
When I was in Theology class as an undergraduate my old Jesuit professor said that there was rather a lot he was looking forward to learning when he faced his judgment. However, he thought that since hell is defined as the complete absense of God and since God is omnipresent it logically follows that when you die it is either heaven or oblivion. If you make the cut you are in, if not you simply cease to be.
He went on to say that he was sure that God would not condemn a soul unless that soul was ESSENTIALLY negative. He then asked us if we could envision someone who could have absolutely no positive aspects whatsoever. He felt that such a person would have to be completely insane and therefore not culpable. In other words, its pretty hard to tick off God sufficiently to merit oblivion.

*nod* Both interesting thoughts, unfortunately not ones that I've found often talked about outside the classroom, not even JPII's statement. Although the Church mostly avoids the hellfire and brimstone stance during Mass, they do still load the guilt on you in school and such.


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Actually, there was a movement back in the 19th Century where Cardinal Mercier of Brussels led a movement to have Mary proclaimed as co-redemptor along with Christ. This was pretty close to out and out heresy so you can guess what happened when the Pope called him for consultations. Can you spell "Whoops, sorry, let me back off of that real fast"?


Please post your thoughts or PM me if you wish. I'd like to hear and discuss this with you.

Ha, not surprising. On one hand Mary's role is really huge throughout the NT (as is Mary Magdalene's actually). But, in what I think is a matter of outside culture that has been continued on through tradition, the emphasis on her virginity to the exclusion of pretty much all other features about her has become, well... excessive. Despite what I've always seen as gospel contradictions of that fact, though I admit to not reading them even in Latin much less the original. As if, despite giving birth, virginity is the only way that a woman could be so honored.

And then throughout time there's been increasing amounts of degradation and persecution of women with Mary being the one exception. So while it's great that she's honored, the rest of us get the shaft. (Ok that's almost a pun but not intended to be.) My understanding is there used to be more acceptance of women within the church, before there were priests there were male and female deacons, but there isn't equality and I'm never going to accept the Church's decision on that.

Originally Posted by MysticCat

But what you said is "we're not really terminating a pregnancy." That's the part that I think is a mischaracterization. There's a difference between "we're doing this to save the mother's life/our goal is not to terminate a pregnancy" and "we're not really terminating a pregnancy."



Although interesting how the real end of the world stuff in Revelation -- the last few chapters -- draws heavily from Isaiah.

I want a burrito.

Meanwhile, I'm reminded of the midrash (rabbinic teaching) telling of God's adminition to those celebrating when pharoah and his army were washed away by the Red Sea: "My children are drowning in the sea and you want to sing before me?"

And dekeguy, you posts -- which I always find interesting -- really would be a lot easier to follow if you were using the quote function.

Good midrash Also you cannot have my burrito it has been nomnomnom'd away.

Originally Posted by Beryana

I am a Lay Dominican - so a lay member of the Order of Preachers

So you should have interesting thoughts on my response to your insinuation that I was accusing the Vatican of a vast conspiracy ala Dan Brown. Yet you choose not to post them.