Nun excommunicated for allowing abortion to save the life of a mother

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by rhoyaltempest

Many of them don't TRULY believe either. How can you believe and molest children? and not once or twice but repeatedly?

My point is that they may think they believe, but they don't really. What's funny is that if you truly believe that God knows you regardless of what you show others, then why don't you think God sees right through you in everything that you do? Your heart, your true intentions whether you ask for forgiveness or not? I'll tell you why... because many don't really believe what they preach; they just need to control the flock. That's how organized religion got started...a need to control the flock.

I disagree, most of the Church is made up of people who did not abuse children. Their cover up of it is inexcusable but consistent with their beliefs about confession and forgiveness.

I'm not sure why you assume that the priests, bishops etc, don't think that God sees right through them. Unless you mean lay people?

I also disagree about the reason for organized religion being 'control.' At the very least not all of the people in 'control' see it that way. I think we've gone through a period where religion had a high control over people's lives in the Western world, but that it is a cyclical thing.
I see some point here though in ancient religions as well where religious reasons were provided for basic civic matters including when to plant and harvest, but I don't think anyone really created a religion with that intent.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

It has to do with the perspective on this issue in one strain of Christianity. But otherwise, co-sign.

Yeah, for me, Christianity is about spirituality and not about what humans do under the auspices of the institute of religion.

[Beryana]

I just wanted add how amused I am by people thinking they understand Catholic Theology and Canon Law when most only know of Catholicism what they read in the papers. . . .

[Beryana]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

I disagree, most of the Church is made up of people who did not abuse children. Their cover up of it is inexcusable but consistent with their beliefs about confession and forgiveness.

And remember too that the 'cover up' was not necessarily on the part of the Catholic Dioceses but rather on the part of civil authorities (Milwaukee PD being one of them).

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by Beryana

And remember too that the 'cover up' was not necessarily on the part of the Catholic Dioceses but rather on the part of civil authorities (Milwaukee PD being one of them).

Most of it was on the part of the Church itself internationally. The civil authorities are just as to blame when they were involved.

And I blame the people who knew about it and who claim the moral high ground most.

[Beryana]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

Most of it was on the part of the Church itself internationally. The civil authorities are just as to blame when they were involved.

And I blame the people who knew about it and who claim the moral high ground most.

And I'm going to ask you to elaborate on your statement - other than what you have read in the newspapers. Why do you believe this was a 'cover up' by the Vatican?

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Beryana

I just wanted add how amused I am by people thinking they understand Catholic Theology and Canon Law when most only know of Catholicism what they read in the papers. . . .

Originally Posted by Beryana

And I'm going to ask you to elaborate on your statement - other than what you have read in the newspapers.

[Psi U MC Vito]

Originally Posted by Beryana

I just wanted add how amused I am by people thinking they understand Catholic Theology and Canon Law when most only know of Catholicism what they read in the papers. . . .

Actually a interesting question. Of those who posted in this thread, how many actually are or were Roman Catholics?

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by Beryana

And I'm going to ask you to elaborate on your statement - other than what you have read in the newspapers. Why do you believe this was a 'cover up' by the Vatican?

I didn't say this was a Vatican level cover up. I said the Church, which includes all levels of the hierarchy.

Priests with allegations of child abuse were repeatedly removed from positions. The Church historically has not turned offenders or allegations over to civil authorities (although there have been situations where civil authorities also ignored allegations). Priests who have been through therapy - not all of it provided by licensed therapists - were not monitored effectively and were allowed to be around children. This has been a systemic problem and has not been unique to the United States - see Ireland, England, Germany, South America, etc.

And the attitude that the hierarchy has had to this issue has shown a level of disrespect to the victims, although not indicative of Church policy, off handed remarks about this being all about the media, or comparing criticism to anti-semitism, show an incredibly flippant attitude.

The Church is not full of sex offenders and child molesters, percentages are about the same as among other religious leaders or school teachers. However the Church claims moral authority over a large number of people, and to behave immorally and unethically is hypocritical and destroys people's trust in the institution.


Also, "the newspapers" (and other media) are how we get news. Short of being in the Vatican I'm not sure how you expect people to get this information.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Yeah I'm not sure how else we're supposed to learn things.

Originally Posted by Psi U MC Vito

Actually a interesting question. Of those who posted in this thread, how many actually are or were Roman Catholics?

Raised Roman Catholic, attended Catholic grade school, High School, and attended a Jesuit University. My Catholic cred is solid, yo. But most people here know that at least to some extent so I don't mind sharing.

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Or studied Catholicism for some reason?

That would be a good question if we asked such questions when we discuss other denominations and religions on here. Moreover, if Beryana thinks he/she has something to contribute, he/she should do so without the "you all think you know, but you don't" tone.

This.

[rhoyaltempest]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Yeah, for me, Christianity is about spirituality and not about what humans do under the auspices of the institute of religion.

Exactly. I'm there with you on this. For me it's all about Christ consciousness but sadly, many that call themselves "Christians" are not Christ conscious.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

You're like... 12 steps past where my understanding of ectopic pregnancy ends But I found this Catholics United for the Faith



You can read the whole thing for a full explanation. But in short:

Thanks for the explanation, it doesn't really answer my question, but basically that is the problem when you let people trained in areas other than medicine make decisions involving very complicated medical problems. These justifications are very simplistic and self-serving. Medically, the distinctions are meaningless.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

Yeah I'm not sure how else we're supposed to learn things.

Raised Roman Catholic, attended Catholic grade school, High School, and attended a Jesuit University. My Catholic cred is solid, yo. But most people here know that at least to some extent so I don't mind sharing.



This.

Hey,I agree. I could tell you had a catholic background, and I clearly stated my non-catholic background. I don't think it really matters, though. People get on GC discussing Islam on a regular basis, and last time I checked we don't have many Muslims on the board.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Or studied Catholicism for some reason?

That would be a good question if we asked such questions when we discuss other denominations and religions on here. Moreover, if Beryana thinks he/she has something to contribute, he/she should do so without the "you all think you know, but you don't" tone.

she

[Beryana]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Or studied Catholicism for some reason?

That would be a good question if we asked such questions when we discuss other denominations and religions on here. Moreover, if Beryana thinks he/she has something to contribute, he/she should do so without the "you all think you know, but you don't" tone.

And I have never alluded to being an expert on Catholic Theology and definitely not on Canon Law. However, I am amused by those who DO feel they know both topics very well. I am a lowly graduate student in Catholic Theology. For the most part, I'm staying out of this conversation as I have had experience with the other players in this conversation (and have also deleted many of the posts which I WAS going to post) and despite my belief that I have a firm grasp on Catholic social teachings many of those involved in this conversation are set in their beliefs that some of the teachings of the Catholic Church are antiquated.

If you really care to know what the Catholic Church teaches, or even the systems in place for dealing with various wrongdoings, I'm more than happy to direct you to them - and they do not include newspapers or wikipedia.
(And it doesn't take too much effort to figure out that I am a 'she'. . . .)