Breaking News: Sen. Barack Obama’s grandmother has passed away.

[nittanyalum]

Well, if we're going to get morbid, here, what would define "sufficient proof", CB? Does that mean a death certificate needs to have already been produced for presentation to the clerk? It's very possible the actual certificate wouldn't be produced in less than 48 hours -- so if the certificate isn't created yet and the ballot has otherwise met all of the requirements of an absentee ballot, is there still an argument?

And please note the last sentence in the part you quoted -- "The casting of any such ballot SHALL NOT invalidate the election."

[CrackerBarrel]

Originally Posted by nittanyalum

Well, if we're going to get morbid, here, what would define "sufficient proof", CB? Does that mean a death certificate needs to have already been produced for presentation to the clerk? It's very possible the actual certificate wouldn't be produced in less than 48 hours -- so if the certificate isn't created yet and the ballot has otherwise met all of the requirements of an absentee ballot, is there still an argument?

And please note the last sentence in the part you quoted -- "The casting of any such ballot SHALL NOT invalidate the election."

Yeah which means that Hawaii wouldn't have to revote. It does mean the election official is breaking the law.

And I would bet the statement from Obama HQ about the death or the obituary which will run tomorrow is sufficient proof. I don't know and it really doesn't matter, but I was pointing out that by trying to seem nice and cuddly HI election officials are breaking their own election laws.

Originally Posted by nittanyalum

Well, if we're going to get morbid, here, what would define "sufficient proof", CB? Does that mean a death certificate needs to have already been produced for presentation to the clerk? It's very possible the actual certificate wouldn't be produced in less than 48 hours -- so if the certificate isn't created yet and the ballot has otherwise met all of the requirements of an absentee ballot, is there still an argument?

And please note the last sentence in the part you quoted -- "The casting of any such ballot SHALL NOT invalidate the election."

It took almost 3 months before we got my Tutu's death certificate.

I seriously doubt that anyone will challenge Mrs. Dunham's vote here.

[CrackerBarrel]

Originally Posted by OTW

It took almost 3 months before we got my Tutu's death certificate.

I seriously doubt that anyone will challenge Mrs. Dunham's vote here.

I would strongly think otherwise. It doesn't say that a Hawaii citizen must present the evidence, and there are certainly plenty of people in this country crazy enough to do so despite the fact that one vote in HI means literally nothing to this election.

Originally Posted by CrackerBarrel

I would strongly think otherwise. It doesn't say that a Hawaii citizen must present the evidence, and there are certainly plenty of people in this country crazy enough to do so despite the fact that one vote in HI means literally nothing to this election.

The presidential election, anyway.

However, our ballots also contained heated races for mayor, the rail issue, and whether we need another Con Con.

Her vote may mean nothing to you, but it does for me and my family.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by CrackerBarrel

I would strongly think otherwise. It doesn't say that a Hawaii citizen must present the evidence, and there are certainly plenty of people in this country crazy enough to do so despite the fact that one vote in HI means literally nothing to this election.

Cracker...every vote counts.

[CrackerBarrel]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

Cracker...every vote counts.

But dead votes only count in Chicago.

I don't have a problem with counting one extra vote that isn't a legal vote in a massively Dem state, but don't announce on the news that you're ignoring your election laws forchristssake, that's my only point.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by CrackerBarrel

But dead votes only count in Chicago.

I don't have a problem with counting one extra vote that isn't a legal vote in a massively Dem state, but don't announce on the news that you're ignoring your election laws forchristssake, that's my only point.

You know what....really...shut up...ok?

The woman is dead...have some ...JUST SOME modicum of respect and go find something else to talk about...and leave Christ and God out of it.

[CrackerBarrel]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

You know what....really...shut up...ok?

The woman is dead...have some ...JUST SOME modicum of respect and go find something else to talk about...and leave Christ and God out of it.

Sure. And my sympathy goes out to Obama. But I don't think the only way to respect her is to break your own election laws. And hell, even if you're going to do it because it seems like the right thing to do (which I agree it does), don't announce it on TV. Because it is possible to respect her memory and the sanctity of your state's election laws at the same time.

And like I said earlier:
Again, it doesn't matter and I don't really care because HI isn't going to swing anyways, but what's the point in having election laws if you can ignore them at will? Following election laws tends to be something Democrats get real excited about (and it's a good thing to care about), but you can't selectively enforce them just because it's a sob story.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by CrackerBarrel

I don't have a problem with counting one extra vote that isn't a legal vote in a massively Dem state, but don't announce on the news that you're ignoring your election laws forchristssake, that's my only point.

I'm with you on this.

If the law were different, it wouldn't bother me. If the election official had simply declined comment, I wouldn't have given it any more thought. But I wouldn't expect that you could come out and say in this case we're going to violate the laws of Hawaii, and then expect to retain the public trust, especially if any elections ever have unexpected outcomes. The official is undermining his or her own system.

[DaemonSeid]

wow...I can't believe that some of you here are discussing (and debating) if her vote should count......


Just.....damn.

[CrackerBarrel]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

wow...I can't believe that some of you here are discussing (and debating) if her vote should count......


Just.....damn.

Again, it doesn't matter and I don't really care because HI isn't going to swing anyways, but what's the point in having election laws if you can ignore them at will? Following election laws tends to be something Democrats get real excited about (and it's a good thing to care about), but you can't selectively enforce them just because it's a sob story.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by nittanyalum

Well, if we're going to get morbid, here, what would define "sufficient proof", CB? Does that mean a death certificate needs to have already been produced for presentation to the clerk? It's very possible the actual certificate wouldn't be produced in less than 48 hours -- so if the certificate isn't created yet and the ballot has otherwise met all of the requirements of an absentee ballot, is there still an argument?

And please note the last sentence in the part you quoted -- "The casting of any such ballot SHALL NOT invalidate the election."

Wouldn't public acknowledgment by a family member and Presidential candidate seem like sufficient proof?

I'm guessing that law is written that way for all the times when the election officials would have no idea that a particular voter had died. In this case, it's pretty clear they know she died.

I don't care what they do with this particular vote. [ETA: this sounds really harsh. I mean, I have no real preference about how Hawaii handles it, not that I'm not sad for the Obama family that they lost their grandma.] It's not as if Hawaii is suddenly going to swing to McCain. But it'd be a pretty dangerous precedent to set, unless you wanted to change the law to say as long a voter is alive to request the absentee ballot, the vote will count.

ETA: I mean it honors her legacy either way: they count the vote she wanted to cast or they honor the laws her grandson will want upheld. It's unsentimental to disregard the vote, but it's apparently what the law requires if they know she is dead.