Breaking News: Sen. Barack Obama’s grandmother has passed away.

Originally Posted by CrackerBarrel

Then they may be knowingly committing election fraud. In lots of states she's not an eligible voter if she's dead on election day and if the elections officials are aware of that (which everyone in the country is now) then her vote should be disqualified when they start to open and tally the absentee ballots.

I know it's mean sounding and isn't something I would have brought up, but it is the law in many states (can't find anything about HI in particular).

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalra...-grandm-1.html

Hawaii will count her absentee ballot.

I doubt our elections official would go on the record and say that they will count it if they knew they were committing voter fraud.

[CrackerBarrel]

Originally Posted by OTW

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalra...-grandm-1.html

Hawaii will count her absentee ballot.

I doubt our elections official would go on the record and say that they will count it if they knew they were committing voter fraud.

Well I dare say that he did just that (go on the record saying they are breaking election law, that is). I did some legal research and looked at Hawaii's statutes and Hawaii Revised Statutes § 15-13 addresses "Death of voter prior to opening of polls" and says:

Originally Posted by Hawaii Revised Statutes § 15-13

Whenever sufficient proof is shown to the clerk that an absentee voter who has returned the voter's return envelope has died prior to the opening of the polls on the date of election, the voter's ballot shall be deemed invalid and disposed of pursuant to section 11-154. The casting of any such ballot shall not invalidate the election.

[nittanyalum]

Well, if we're going to get morbid, here, what would define "sufficient proof", CB? Does that mean a death certificate needs to have already been produced for presentation to the clerk? It's very possible the actual certificate wouldn't be produced in less than 48 hours -- so if the certificate isn't created yet and the ballot has otherwise met all of the requirements of an absentee ballot, is there still an argument?

And please note the last sentence in the part you quoted -- "The casting of any such ballot SHALL NOT invalidate the election."

[CrackerBarrel]

Originally Posted by nittanyalum

Well, if we're going to get morbid, here, what would define "sufficient proof", CB? Does that mean a death certificate needs to have already been produced for presentation to the clerk? It's very possible the actual certificate wouldn't be produced in less than 48 hours -- so if the certificate isn't created yet and the ballot has otherwise met all of the requirements of an absentee ballot, is there still an argument?

And please note the last sentence in the part you quoted -- "The casting of any such ballot SHALL NOT invalidate the election."

Yeah which means that Hawaii wouldn't have to revote. It does mean the election official is breaking the law.

And I would bet the statement from Obama HQ about the death or the obituary which will run tomorrow is sufficient proof. I don't know and it really doesn't matter, but I was pointing out that by trying to seem nice and cuddly HI election officials are breaking their own election laws.

Originally Posted by nittanyalum

Well, if we're going to get morbid, here, what would define "sufficient proof", CB? Does that mean a death certificate needs to have already been produced for presentation to the clerk? It's very possible the actual certificate wouldn't be produced in less than 48 hours -- so if the certificate isn't created yet and the ballot has otherwise met all of the requirements of an absentee ballot, is there still an argument?

And please note the last sentence in the part you quoted -- "The casting of any such ballot SHALL NOT invalidate the election."

It took almost 3 months before we got my Tutu's death certificate.

I seriously doubt that anyone will challenge Mrs. Dunham's vote here.

[DaemonSeid]

wow...I can't believe that some of you here are discussing (and debating) if her vote should count......


Just.....damn.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by nittanyalum

Well, if we're going to get morbid, here, what would define "sufficient proof", CB? Does that mean a death certificate needs to have already been produced for presentation to the clerk? It's very possible the actual certificate wouldn't be produced in less than 48 hours -- so if the certificate isn't created yet and the ballot has otherwise met all of the requirements of an absentee ballot, is there still an argument?

And please note the last sentence in the part you quoted -- "The casting of any such ballot SHALL NOT invalidate the election."

Wouldn't public acknowledgment by a family member and Presidential candidate seem like sufficient proof?

I'm guessing that law is written that way for all the times when the election officials would have no idea that a particular voter had died. In this case, it's pretty clear they know she died.

I don't care what they do with this particular vote. [ETA: this sounds really harsh. I mean, I have no real preference about how Hawaii handles it, not that I'm not sad for the Obama family that they lost their grandma.] It's not as if Hawaii is suddenly going to swing to McCain. But it'd be a pretty dangerous precedent to set, unless you wanted to change the law to say as long a voter is alive to request the absentee ballot, the vote will count.

ETA: I mean it honors her legacy either way: they count the vote she wanted to cast or they honor the laws her grandson will want upheld. It's unsentimental to disregard the vote, but it's apparently what the law requires if they know she is dead.

[CrackerBarrel]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

wow...I can't believe that some of you here are discussing (and debating) if her vote should count......


Just.....damn.

Again, it doesn't matter and I don't really care because HI isn't going to swing anyways, but what's the point in having election laws if you can ignore them at will? Following election laws tends to be something Democrats get real excited about (and it's a good thing to care about), but you can't selectively enforce them just because it's a sob story.

[CrackerBarrel]

Originally Posted by OTW

It took almost 3 months before we got my Tutu's death certificate.

I seriously doubt that anyone will challenge Mrs. Dunham's vote here.

I would strongly think otherwise. It doesn't say that a Hawaii citizen must present the evidence, and there are certainly plenty of people in this country crazy enough to do so despite the fact that one vote in HI means literally nothing to this election.

Originally Posted by CrackerBarrel

I would strongly think otherwise. It doesn't say that a Hawaii citizen must present the evidence, and there are certainly plenty of people in this country crazy enough to do so despite the fact that one vote in HI means literally nothing to this election.

The presidential election, anyway.

However, our ballots also contained heated races for mayor, the rail issue, and whether we need another Con Con.

Her vote may mean nothing to you, but it does for me and my family.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by CrackerBarrel

I would strongly think otherwise. It doesn't say that a Hawaii citizen must present the evidence, and there are certainly plenty of people in this country crazy enough to do so despite the fact that one vote in HI means literally nothing to this election.

Cracker...every vote counts.

[CrackerBarrel]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

Cracker...every vote counts.

But dead votes only count in Chicago.

I don't have a problem with counting one extra vote that isn't a legal vote in a massively Dem state, but don't announce on the news that you're ignoring your election laws forchristssake, that's my only point.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by CrackerBarrel

But dead votes only count in Chicago.

I don't have a problem with counting one extra vote that isn't a legal vote in a massively Dem state, but don't announce on the news that you're ignoring your election laws forchristssake, that's my only point.

You know what....really...shut up...ok?

The woman is dead...have some ...JUST SOME modicum of respect and go find something else to talk about...and leave Christ and God out of it.

[CrackerBarrel]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

You know what....really...shut up...ok?

The woman is dead...have some ...JUST SOME modicum of respect and go find something else to talk about...and leave Christ and God out of it.

Sure. And my sympathy goes out to Obama. But I don't think the only way to respect her is to break your own election laws. And hell, even if you're going to do it because it seems like the right thing to do (which I agree it does), don't announce it on TV. Because it is possible to respect her memory and the sanctity of your state's election laws at the same time.

And like I said earlier:
Again, it doesn't matter and I don't really care because HI isn't going to swing anyways, but what's the point in having election laws if you can ignore them at will? Following election laws tends to be something Democrats get real excited about (and it's a good thing to care about), but you can't selectively enforce them just because it's a sob story.

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by DGTess

I hope if she voted in advance, there's a mechanism to separate that ballot out.

Seriously? Way to be a petty, dried up old bitch.