NPHC Greeks - how do you feel about this?

[L.O.C.K.]

Ladygreek...man you're so SMART!!! Hahaha, I like what you said a lot.

I think "tradition" is something people like to throw around. What constitutes a tradition? If you have a health fair for two years in a row, is it a tradition?

On one hand, I see people's points about the need to possess cultural heritage. Specifically, the Black community has been robbed countless times throughout history of its practices and traditions, so it seems natural to be protective of it. I'm sure if you reversed the roles of the last 600 years of Whites and Blacks you'd have the same want of many for protection and preservation of culture.

Yet, culture in itself is such a vague term. What constitutes it? Who can claim to have "ownership" of a certain cultural practice? In Greek terms, just adopting Greek letters is copying Phi Beta Kappa. Have secret rituals, etc. is also from them and before them the Masons. Everything is shared and mutates over time when different people adapt it to their own needs.

Like I said before, I think cultural defensiveness directly stems from how much you feel your culture has been taken from you. For example, if non-Scottish people started trying to play the bagpipes, I wouldn't be offended because inherently I feel I can have ownership of that "tradition" and "cultural" practice.

I don't know if any of my ramblings are making sense. I am trying to look at it from an academic point of view, ahaha.

As BluNYC2 said, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

Why do you think Latino/a, Asian, Multicultural Greeks are imitating Black Greeks? I think it comes from a need to find one's niche and establish a counter-culture that is anti-mainstream (ie White). Black Greeks have a much longer tradition of creating (and sustaining) this counter-culture. Because of this, people look to it for guidance and direction, sometimes even subconsciously.

D9 orgs have a lot of pride and history in themselves, and it is truly admirable and something people see. Now, you're seeing people measure themselves to standards of D9 orgs...Latino/a, Asian, Multicultural orgs have their measures of success based upon Black Greek orgs. 100 years ago, that wouldn't have been possible b/c anything that was Black or related to Black culture was considered bad by mainstream society.

Am I saying that everything is peachy now? Helllllll no. But the fact that people who aren't Black are emulating Black culture and traditions is truly intruiging on a sociological level. Is some of that imitation degrading? Yes of course (see people trying to act what they feel is "gangsta" or "ghetto"). However, when it comes to things like developing a strong presence on campus in the form of community programs, student organizational involvement, philanthropy, and alumni involvement, I personally feel that is a very good thing. Indeed, Black Greeks are the Gold Standard when it comes to that.

What I think has to happen now is that there needs to be more interraction between various Greek groups (ie NPC/NIC, NPHC, NALFO, NAPA, NMGC, etc) and beginning to develop mutual understanding and respect for each other (b/c I personally feel it doesn't exist now much outside of one's own ethnic Greek group) and share practices and ideas.

Imagine what could be done if things were shared and people had that cultural respect...man it'd be amazing.

Ok, I'm off my idealistic Soap Box now.

[rhoyaltempest]

Originally Posted by L.O.C.K.

Ladygreek...man you're so SMART!!! Hahaha, I like what you said a lot.

I think "tradition" is something people like to throw around. What constitutes a tradition? If you have a health fair for two years in a row, is it a tradition?

On one hand, I see people's points about the need to possess cultural heritage. Specifically, the Black community has been robbed countless times throughout history of its practices and traditions, so it seems natural to be protective of it. I'm sure if you reversed the roles of the last 600 years of Whites and Blacks you'd have the same want of many for protection and preservation of culture.

Yet, culture in itself is such a vague term. What constitutes it? Who can claim to have "ownership" of a certain cultural practice? In Greek terms, just adopting Greek letters is copying Phi Beta Kappa. Have secret rituals, etc. is also from them and before them the Masons. Everything is shared and mutates over time when different people adapt it to their own needs.

Like I said before, I think cultural defensiveness directly stems from how much you feel your culture has been taken from you. For example, if non-Scottish people started trying to play the bagpipes, I wouldn't be offended because inherently I feel I can have ownership of that "tradition" and "cultural" practice.

I don't know if any of my ramblings are making sense. I am trying to look at it from an academic point of view, ahaha.

As BluNYC2 said, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

Why do you think Latino/a, Asian, Multicultural Greeks are imitating Black Greeks? I think it comes from a need to find one's niche and establish a counter-culture that is anti-mainstream (ie White). Black Greeks have a much longer tradition of creating (and sustaining) this counter-culture. Because of this, people look to it for guidance and direction, sometimes even subconsciously.

D9 orgs have a lot of pride and history in themselves, and it is truly admirable and something people see. Now, you're seeing people measure themselves to standards of D9 orgs...Latino/a, Asian, Multicultural orgs have their measures of success based upon Black Greek orgs. 100 years ago, that wouldn't have been possible b/c anything that was Black or related to Black culture was considered bad by mainstream society.

Am I saying that everything is peachy now? Helllllll no. But the fact that people who aren't Black are emulating Black culture and traditions is truly intruiging on a sociological level. Is some of that imitation degrading? Yes of course (see people trying to act what they feel is "gangsta" or "ghetto"). However, when it comes to things like developing a strong presence on campus in the form of community programs, student organizational involvement, philanthropy, and alumni involvement, I personally feel that is a very good thing. Indeed, Black Greeks are the Gold Standard when it comes to that.

What I think has to happen now is that there needs to be more interraction between various Greek groups (ie NPC/NIC, NPHC, NALFO, NAPA, NMGC, etc) and beginning to develop mutual understanding and respect for each other (b/c I personally feel it doesn't exist now much outside of one's own ethnic Greek group) and share practices and ideas.

Imagine what could be done if things were shared and people had that cultural respect...man it'd be amazing.

Ok, I'm off my idealistic Soap Box now.

The bold text is what I really have a problem with. I know that some non- NPHC orgs take things like stepping very seriously and they have respect for NPHC greeks and some even look to them for guidance in some areas, but there are some that only clown and make a big joke out of every thing we do and that goes for things in Black culture in general. Every thing we do is just a big old joke to them. I respect everyone's culture whether I understand it or not and I don't make fun of other people's cultures or try to put them down for it just because I don't understand something or just because I personally wouldn't do this or that. But some people are just being plain disrespectful like some of the non-NPHC greeks who want to say now that we did not create stepping as it exists today just because they heard (and I say heard because most of them haven't even done the research for themselves) that stepping has African origins. Some of the things that are going on are just plain rude and disrespectful and yes, if you're going to be disrespectful, then don't emulate us at all...why would you want to? Take things to the next level and start your own damn thang.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by rhoyaltempest

The bold text is what I really have a problem with. I know that some non- NPHC orgs take things like stepping very seriously and they have respect for NPHC greeks and some even look to them for guidance in some areas, but there are some that only clown and make a big joke out of every thing we do and that goes for things in Black culture in general. Every thing we do is just a big old joke to them. I respect everyone's culture whether I understand it or not and I don't make fun of other people's cultures or try to put them down for it just because I don't understand something or just because I personally wouldn't do this or that. But some people are just being plain disrespectful like some of the non-NPHC greeks who want to say now that we did not create stepping as it exists today just because they heard (and I say heard because most of them haven't even done the research for themselves) that stepping has African origins. Some of the things that are going on are just plain rude and disrespectful and yes, if you're going to be disrespectful, then don't emulate us at all...why would you want to? Take things to the next level and start your own damn thang.

This is kind of what I was getting at. The last 2 posts expressed it perfectly. Thanks!

[Ilaria Ame]

Originally Posted by rhoyaltempest

The bold text is what I really have a problem with. I know that some non- NPHC orgs take things like stepping very seriously and they have respect for NPHC greeks and some even look to them for guidance in some areas, but there are some that only clown and make a big joke out of every thing we do and that goes for things in Black culture in general. Every thing we do is just a big old joke to them. I respect everyone's culture whether I understand it or not and I don't make fun of other people's cultures or try to put them down for it just because I don't understand something or just because I personally wouldn't do this or that. But some people are just being plain disrespectful like some of the non-NPHC greeks who want to say now that we did not create stepping as it exists today just because they heard (and I say heard because most of them haven't even done the research for themselves) that stepping has African origins. Some of the things that are going on are just plain rude and disrespectful and yes, if you're going to be disrespectful, then don't emulate us at all...why would you want to? Take things to the next level and start your own damn thang.

who do you see as "them"? i've never witnessed a non-HBGLO step, stroll, call, etc in jest. in fact, the orgs i've seen have been very serious about what they're doing and would be insulted to be told that they're not. i'm not saying what you said doesn't happen, but i just can't imagine it.

[rhoyaltempest]

Originally Posted by Ilaria Ame

who do you see as "them"? i've never witnessed a non-HBGLO step, stroll, call, etc in jest. in fact, the orgs i've seen have been very serious about what they're doing and would be insulted to be told that they're not. i'm not saying what you said doesn't happen, but i just can't imagine it.

This happens all the time...especially among some PW fraternities and I'm talking about mocking Black culture in general, not just that of Black greek orgs. Every campus environment is different. At some schools all the greeks respect one another and at others all kinds of disrespect takes place. At one of the PWIs I attended, we didn't socialize with the PW greeks at all because of the things that were taking place and the disrespect that was shown to us. If they wanted to learn how to step it would have only been because they thought is was funny or "cool," not because they truly wanted to learn the artform.

As for the bolded text, if you're serious about what you do and you don't show disrespect to NPHC orgs, than I'm not talking about those orgs.

[Ilaria Ame]

Originally Posted by rhoyaltempest

This happens all the time...especially among some PW fraternities and I'm talking about mocking Black culture in general, not just that of Black greek orgs. Every campus environment is different. At some schools all the greeks respect one another and at others all kinds of disrespect takes place. At one of the PWIs I attended, we didn't socialize with the PW greeks at all because of the things that were taking place and the disrespect that was shown to us. If they wanted to learn how to step it would have only been because they thought is was funny or "cool," not because they truly wanted to learn the artform.

As for the bolded text, if you're serious about what you do and you don't show disrespect to NPHC orgs, than I'm not talking about those orgs.

oh, ok. like i said, it just blew my mind to think that this happens. that's sad sorry to show my ignorance, but what is a PW greek? i've never heard that term before.

[rhoyaltempest]

Originally Posted by Ilaria Ame

oh, ok. like i said, it just blew my mind to think that this happens. that's sad sorry to show my ignorance, but what is a PW greek? i've never heard that term before.

PW is just my personal code for predominently White greek org or historically White greek org and PWI is for predominently White Institution. I have to add that at the 2nd PWI I went to, the disrespect problem did not exist although the PW and NPHC orgs had no relationship at all with one another. We didn't even socialize or really know one another. Some PWI's (and I said some) have a whole different set of problems and it doesn't matter if you're a greek or non-greek. And I think you know what kind of problems I'm refering to.

[Ilaria Ame]

Originally Posted by rhoyaltempest

PW is just my personal code for predominently White greek org or historically White greek org and PWI is for predominently White Institution. I have to add that at the 2nd PWI I went to, the disrespect problem did not exist although the PW and NPHC orgs had no relationship at all with one another. We didn't even socialize or really know one another. Some PWI's (and I said some) have a whole different set of problems and it doesn't matter if you're a greek or non-greek. And I think you know what kind of problems I'm refering to.

ok. nice to know...for the record, i am a white girl on a predominately white campus in the deep south. i know the problems you refer to. i see them and deal with them every day in my job, where everyone hates eveyone else. in addition to that, greek life is completely split. seperate events all around. even greek week is only for NPC, NPHC isn't invited to participate. yeah. not kidding. all this is why me and my line sisters founded a chapter of a multicultural org this year. we are hoping to force a change in how greek life is run because we can't be categorized. of course, it could completely flop and we'll be hated by everyone instead of just half of everyone, but all we can do is present ourselves in the best way possible and hope for a miracle!

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by L.O.C.K.

I think "tradition" is something people like to throw around. What constitutes a tradition?

I really think people are putting 10 on 2 with this topic.

Main Entry: tra·di·tion
1 a : an inherited, established, or customary pattern of thought, action, or behavior (as a religious practice or a social custom) b : a belief or story or a body of beliefs or stories relating to the past that are commonly accepted as historical though not verifiable <the bulk of traditions attributed to the Prophet -- J. L. Esposito>
2 : the handing down of information, beliefs, and customs by word of mouth or by example from one generation to another without written instruction
3 : cultural continuity in social attitudes, customs, and institutions
4 : characteristic manner, method, or style <in the best liberal tradition>

From a larger context: Any practice that breeds recognition and has done so for years across the country will be called a "tradition" by many. Not everyone will agree on that and not everyone has to.

Smaller context: If people want to use the term "tradition" then that's what they will do. My chapter had traditional programs and practices that no other organization on that campus had. I remember when another organization tried to take ALL of our ideas and formatting and rename it without even speaking to us about a collaboration. This didn't sit too well with us and the program wasn't accepted by the campus community. That's fine if folks want to adopt and adapt CERTAIN traditions. Just KNOW where you got it from and don't front like you and your organization came up with it. That also goes to NPHC traditions that came from elsewhere.

[rhoyaltempest]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

I really think people are putting 10 on 2 with this topic.

Main Entry: tra·di·tion
1 a : an inherited, established, or customary pattern of thought, action, or behavior (as a religious practice or a social custom) b : a belief or story or a body of beliefs or stories relating to the past that are commonly accepted as historical though not verifiable <the bulk of traditions attributed to the Prophet -- J. L. Esposito>
2 : the handing down of information, beliefs, and customs by word of mouth or by example from one generation to another without written instruction
3 : cultural continuity in social attitudes, customs, and institutions
4 : characteristic manner, method, or style <in the best liberal tradition>

From a larger context: Any practice that breeds recognition and has done so for years across the country will be called a "tradition" by many. Not everyone will agree on that and not everyone has to.

Smaller context: If people want to use the term "tradition" then that's what they will do. My chapter had traditional programs and practices that no other organization on that campus had. I remember when another organization tried to take ALL of our ideas and formatting and rename it without even speaking to us about a collaboration. This didn't sit too well with us and the program wasn't accepted by the campus community. That's fine if folks want to adopt and adapt CERTAIN traditions. Just KNOW where you got it from and don't front like you and your organization came up with it. That also goes to NPHC traditions that came from elsewhere.

Exactly. And this just adds to the point I made earlier about the disrespect that's currently going on now among some of the non-NPHC orgs that are emulating our traditions.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by rhoyaltempest

Exactly. And this just adds to the point I made earlier about the disrespect that's currently going on now among some of the non-NPHC orgs that are emulating our traditions.

I say "let it ride" unless there's a greater cultural significance beyond Greekdom that you're getting at.

In my 8 post-undergraduate years, I haven't encountered too many nonNPHCers who stroll and step. That's because I don't go to step shows that often and don't attend parties with strolling and where nonNPHCers frequent. As for calls, handsigns, and 'nalia practices, I'm generally disinterested in that issue because many nonNPHCers have put their own spin on this stuff and made these practices relevant to their organizations. Many of them also know/acknowledge where they got the basic idea from, within the Greek context, just like many NPHCers know/acknowledge where we got our ideas from.

[IncontRHOllable]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

I really think people are putting 10 on 2 with this topic.

Main Entry: tra·di·tion
1 a : an inherited, established, or customary pattern of thought, action, or behavior (as a religious practice or a social custom) b : a belief or story or a body of beliefs or stories relating to the past that are commonly accepted as historical though not verifiable <the bulk of traditions attributed to the Prophet -- J. L. Esposito>
2 : the handing down of information, beliefs, and customs by word of mouth or by example from one generation to another without written instruction
3 : cultural continuity in social attitudes, customs, and institutions
4 : characteristic manner, method, or style <in the best liberal tradition>

From a larger context: Any practice that breeds recognition and has done so for years across the country will be called a "tradition" by many. Not everyone will agree on that and not everyone has to.

Smaller context: If people want to use the term "tradition" then that's what they will do. My chapter had traditional programs and practices that no other organization on that campus had. I remember when another organization tried to take ALL of our ideas and formatting and rename it without even speaking to us about a collaboration. This didn't sit too well with us and the program wasn't accepted by the campus community. That's fine if folks want to adopt and adapt CERTAIN traditions. Just KNOW where you got it from and don't front like you and your organization came up with it. That also goes to NPHC traditions that came from elsewhere.

Whooo say it say it say it!

[brownsugar952]

I have done a little research on the subject of stepping and I have read that Phi Beta Sigma started to step first. Wouldn't the other Greek Organizations in the Divine 9 technically be copying off of the Sigmas or because you all are in the same council, it's ok to do this?

Let say by a MIRACLE another organization was able to join NPHC. Would it be ok for them to step, have calls and handsigns since the are now apart of the council?

[neosoul]

Originally Posted by brownsugar952

I have done a little research on the subject of stepping and I have read that Phi Beta Sigma started to step first. Wouldn't the other Greek Organizations in the Divine 9 technically be copying off of the Sigmas or because you all are in the same council, it's ok to do this?

Let say by a MIRACLE another organization was able to join NPHC. Would it be ok for them to step, have calls and handsigns since the are now apart of the council?

LOL @ bolded

[raggann03]

Being a member of a service GLO longer than I have a NPHC this is something of an irritant to me. I find that most of the anger or ill feeling comes from a general lack of knowledge. Many of us (OPA) choose to use those terms because they most accurately state the feeling of the process we just underwent. To this day me and my omega phi alpha pledgemates(or whatever pc term you want to use) call each other line sister. It accurately describes the bond we feel with each other. We don't do it out of disrespect or anything....its just what it is. Unfortunately we aren't allowed the benefit of publicly displaying our pride in our organization, bond with each other without getting looks of contempt from uninformed D9 members.

And now that I'm a D9 member....I still call my Omega Phi Alpha sisters soror, line sister, etc(sands has never been applicable). I have jackets and para for both organizations that I display proudly. And yes there are some things that are unique to Sigma Gamma Rho that I will not duplicate for Omega Phi Alpha just because its all greek. I don't agree with that