How do you feel about high school and misc. step teams doing NPHC steps!

[aurorablue]

I'm really surprised I don't see any posts about this but then again I guess they can be in the archives. How do NPHC orgs feel about high school and misc. step teams doing their steps in stepshows? I'm a little old school (SGRho, Spr. 93) but I recently viewed some high school stepshows and the teams were doing things that mimic us EXACTLY, from the steps, to the showmanship, to the chants (although changing some words)....I mean everything!!! If I hear one more high school or misc. stepteam talk about "ICE COLD," I'm going to scream! What do these kids know about an "ICE ICE BABY...TOO COLD...TOO COLD"? Some of these teams (and clubs) even have 3 Greek letters for a name (and I'm not talking about the little sister clubs affiliated with our orgs., like the "Rhoer Club" for my organization). These kids are out of control but I know it's our members who are out there teaching them our steps or maybe they are studying our stepshow performances.

I don't mind if other people want to step and I'm all for getting kids off the streets and into something more positive, but they need their own steps. And I know it's not that hard to come up with new steps because I used to help create them for my undergrad chapter. Since when did drill teams become step teams anyway? My little cousin is in a "drill team" but the steps she showed me aren't like anything I remember drill teams doing when I was younger. She showed me actual steps, taken from our orgs. and before I educated her, she knew nothing about our orgs. or about the history behind our orgs. or the creation of stepping. Although I know it's not the children's fault, I think it's really disrespectful.

What do you all think?

Peace.
Aurorablue, SGRho, Spr. 93

[BlueNYC2]

The reason why some of these teams are using our respective steps & what not are cuz their teachers/instructors are most likely members of our respective orgs. thats the only conclusion i can come too, cuz my sandz, she teaches the kids at her church some steps, and i'm sure there are some Zeta steps included.

[Elephant Walk]

I mean everything!!! If I hear one more high school or misc. stepteam talk about "ICE COLD," I'm going to scream! What do these kids know about an "ICE ICE BABY...TOO COLD...TOO COLD"?

You mean from the Outkast song?

[ladygreek]

Originally Posted by aurorablue

I'm really surprised I don't see any posts about this but then again I guess they can be in the archives. How do NPHC orgs feel about high school and misc. step teams doing their steps in stepshows? I'm a little old school (SGRho, Spr. 93) but I recently viewed some high school stepshows and the teams were doing things that mimic us EXACTLY, from the steps, to the showmanship, to the chants (although changing some words)....I mean everything!!! If I hear one more high school or misc. stepteam talk about "ICE COLD," I'm going to scream! What do these kids know about an "ICE ICE BABY...TOO COLD...TOO COLD"? Some of these teams (and clubs) even have 3 Greek letters for a name (and I'm not talking about the little sister clubs affiliated with our orgs., like the "Rhoer Club" for my organization). These kids are out of control but I know it's our members who are out there teaching them our steps or maybe they are studying our stepshow performances.

I don't mind if other people want to step and I'm all for getting kids off the streets and into something more positive, but they need their own steps. And I know it's not that hard to come up with new steps because I used to help create them for my undergrad chapter. Since when did drill teams become step teams anyway? My little cousin is in a "drill team" but the steps she showed me aren't like anything I remember drill teams doing when I was younger. She showed me actual steps, taken from our orgs. and before I educated her, she knew nothing about our orgs. or about the history behind our orgs. or the creation of stepping. Although I know it's not the children's fault, I think it's really disrespectful.

What do you all think?

Peace.
Aurorablue, SGRho, Spr. 93

who do you think is teaching them the steps? NPHCers. And you are right there are only so many combinations people can make up before they are really imitating someone else. To me stepping is not that important to be worrying about who is copying. Now if they wear our letters while doing it...

[ladygreek]

Originally Posted by Elephant Walk

You mean from the Outkast song?

That existed waaaayyyyy before Outkast. It was even used in School Daze.

[PeppyGPhiB]

Originally Posted by ladygreek

That existed waaaayyyyy before Outkast. It was even used in School Daze.

The first thing I thought of was Vanilla Ice's "Ice Ice Baby," since the lyrics are in there word-for-word at the end

[aurorablue]

Vanilla Ice stole that line from Alpha Phi Alpha when he recorded that record back in the 80's. The Alphas took him to court over it too and I think they won since all of Alpha's traditional chants are copyrighted. The "ICE COLD" chant is very dear to them and has a significant meaning for the Alphas; it actually tells a story of their founding. That's why I just hate to hear people just mimic them like that, like it's a joke. Most of the NPHC traditional chants have historical and significant value to the members.

Peace.
Aurorablue, SGRho, Spr. 93

[Tom Earp]

Is copying even at that level a form of admiration or just doing it because Black GLOs do it? Maybe that is the same thing?

[aurorablue]

If you're refering to what Vanilla Ice did, you can't expect to copy from a prominent organization and not ask them for permission first. It's just like when these artists sample other artists. They have to ask for permission or they can be sued by the original artist or writer. And then Vanilla Ice went on to make mad money off of that record but from what I understand the Alphas won some of that money in a lawsuit.

As for the high school and misc. step teams doing NPHC steps, there's just no reason for it in my opinion. New steps get made up all the time and what really bugs me is that most of these people don't know whose steps they're doing, the history behind the NPHC orgs, or the history and significance of the art of stepping. For some in NPHCs, stepping is no big deal, but for others it's a huge deal and they regard stepping as one of their beloved traditions and signature steps have been with these orgs for many many years.

Peace.
Aurorablue, SGRho, Spr. 93

[PeppyGPhiB]

Originally Posted by aurorablue

Vanilla Ice stole that line from Alpha Phi Alpha when he recorded that record back in the 80's. The Alphas took him to court over it too and I think they won since all of Alpha's traditional chants are copyrighted. The "ICE COLD" chant is very dear to them and has a significant meaning for the Alphas; it actually tells a story of their founding. That's why I just hate to hear people just mimic them like that, like it's a joke. Most of the NPHC traditional chants have historical and significant value to the members.

Thanks, aurorablue...I had no idea!

[ladygreek]

Originally Posted by aurorablue

If you're refering to what Vanilla Ice did, you can't expect to copy from a prominent organization and not ask them for permission first. It's just like when these artists sample other artists. They have to ask for permission or they can be sued by the original artist or writer. And then Vanilla Ice went on to make mad money off of that record but from what I understand the Alphas won some of that money in a lawsuit.

As for the high school and misc. step teams doing NPHC steps, there's just no reason for it in my opinion. New steps get made up all the time and what really bugs me is that most of these people don't know whose steps they're doing, the history behind the NPHC orgs, or the history and significance of the art of stepping. For some in NPHCs, stepping is no big deal, but for others it's a huge deal and they regard stepping as one of their beloved traditions and signature steps have been with these orgs for many many years.

Peace.
Aurorablue, SGRho, Spr. 93

Come on Aurora. I don't think the Ice Cold reference for Alpha has been around since its inception. In fact I never heard it while in school or for a long time afterwards. I would guess it is a late 80s, 90s thing. But I am sure the Alphas will correct me if I am wrong. That is not to say that when it started it wasn't based on something historical. But when Vanilla Ice did it I bet it's because he (or his people) heard it somewhere and thought it was cool--not having any idea about the Alphas or what it meant to them.

The same with hand signs and calls. They were not there in the 60s and 70s.

As for stepping, for a long time what was called stepping is not what is done today, especially for the sororities who did "performances" rather than step shows. Back then stepping was a Chicago/St.Louis dance also know as the bop. - LOL.

Sororities did dance routines to songs that usually were based on the popular songs at the time, substituting the name of the org in the lyrics. That's why what are now called step mistresses were called song mistresses back in the day. I was such in my chapter--I made up dance routines to go with songs that we sang. They best performers were the ones with the best singers and dancers.

The frats did do a milder version of what is stepping today and both the Sigmas and the Kappas used canes--and nothing was spelled with a "K".

So I say all of this to say, the NPHC has changed over the years and it still tickles me when I here NPHCers talk about the historical value and importance of stepping. Cuz, it just wasn't so. It was pure entertainment.

Just think about it. When our sororities were founded it wasn't even appropriate for "ladies" to go without white gloves, much less wear pants and dance with abondonment. And gentlemen carried canes as a sign of distinction and class.

Now I will not dispute that when stepping became really popular it wasn't based on African movements, because it did seem to grow out of the Pan-African awareness of the 70s.

This is also why so many people are upset about Stomp The Yard, because it makes something that was NEVER part of our validation seem to be so.

Oh and by the way, "signature steps" have changed over the years, too. And it's time for some of them to change again, because they have lost their entertainment value, imo.

The bottom line is the NPHC orgs have not patented or trademark any "steps" and would be hard pressed to do so. Just like new dances are versions of old dances, the same with stepping. You say the Alphas haved tm'd Ice Cold and I cannot dispute that, but I wonder when that was. Because as far as I know, Jerry Butler was the original Ice Man Cometh - LOL.

[blkwebman1919]

I'm not absolutely sure about this, but I remember hearing back then that Vanilla Ice was adopted and his stepbrother (adopted brother?) was an Alpha, so that's where he got the idea to use the Alpha chant. But that could have just been a rumor flying around in the record industry at that time.

[aurorablue]

To Ladygreek,

I never said that the "ICE COLD" chant has been with Alpha since their inception but it is dear to them. Also you say that things in the NPHC orgs have changed over the years and yet you can't understand why newer members (80's, 90's, present) value stepping. Maybe it's because it's their thing and they like to do it. Possibly because it encourages unity, discipline, creativity, teamwork, etc. etc. and I was a stepmistress myself so I know. Also I can just tell that you and I probably have some very different views about "sorority," intake vs. pledging (not hazing), etc. etc. and probably value different things...and that's quite alright. I should also point out that while we are the same, the different NPHC orgs are also different and have different history and values. What you value and hold dear may not be the same things that I value and hold dear or that our sorors value and hold dear. And no one is wrong, we're just different and have a right to different feelings and opinions. What we don't need to do is put eachother's values down and invalidate them.

To AXID670,

You're absolutely right, everything I found on the web about the Vanilla Ice/Alpha case talks about him being sued by a California undergrad chapter. Unfortunately I don't remember all the specifics, I only remember that it was a hot topic at the time and rumors were flying in every direction. But the bottom line is that it was an issue. If you'd really like to know the whole story, you will have to ask an Alpha about it (who was around at the time).

To blkwebman,

I heard that rumor as well.

Peace.
Aurorablue, SGRho, Spr. 93

[Bob Dole]

Originally Posted by Elephant Walk

You mean from the Outkast song?

Andre 3000 is awesome.

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by Bob Dole

Andre 3000 is awesome.

Worst. Sockpuppet. Ever.