White men in NPHC

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

I said:




You said:



Maybe I am missing something? How is that not patronizing and condescending regarding our membership and membership intake processes?

And, are you telling me there is no such thing as racism in "today's society"?

I will be happy to send you the PM I got 2 weeks ago from "Grand Matron" the Klan Ho for Stormfront.org...

You say all this "peace and freedom" crap, and I am not really seeing it these days... Which means we have failed to learn from historical mistakes and we are heading to being a powder keg. Because what I do see, is a lot of suffering of those "haves" that barely look like me, to the "have nots" where more of them look like me.

I'm speaking to individuals, not to organizations. And I'm speaking to them because I, personally, find their views disappointing and biased, and because these views contradict those of their national organization.

The way individual members act and believe is not truly reflective of the D9's membership intake process or the membership as a whole. I know that. You know that. I've typed that several dozen times now it seems. So, how, precisely, am I belittling anyone's organization? How does my opinion make that big of a deal that I am belittling someone?

And I've never said one damn thing about racism not existing, although I'm rather surprised to find the Grand Matron of the Klan on Greekchat, you'd think she'd have better things to do with her time (like die? ok that was uncharitable.). Seriously, the rest of your post has got to be part of a seperate conversation.

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

I'm speaking to individuals, not to organizations. And I'm speaking to them because I, personally, find their views disappointing and biased, and because these views contradict those of their national organization.

The way individual members act and believe is not truly reflective of the D9's membership intake process or the membership as a whole. I know that. You know that. I've typed that several dozen times now it seems. So, how, precisely, am I belittling anyone's organization? How does my opinion make that big of a deal that I am belittling someone?

And I've never said one damn thing about racism not existing, although I'm rather surprised to find the Grand Matron of the Klan on Greekchat, you'd think she'd have better things to do with her time (like die? ok that was uncharitable.). Seriously, the rest of your post has got to be part of a seperate conversation.

I am sorry, but it is unclear to me when you say in the same sentance that an individual member shows bias that does not reflect their organization's mission.

I am sorry, but the way an individual member behaves does reflect on the entire organization. And for the D9, we are judged accordingly. Just ask any of the D9 members who have colors that resemble notorious gangs and when they are stopped because of DWB... If I have not heard or seen it a dozen times after the Long Beach Step Show...

And to be blunt about it: you said "today's society". What does this mean from my perspective? Because, I think "today's society" is just as EFFed up compared to past societies, like my Sorority sister Mom's who got water cannoned for equality or my Dad's who is an Alpha Phi Alpha Fraternity, Inc. member who was arrested and jailed for protesting at a lunch counter...

Today's society is not that much better and whoever says that chit can go EFF themselves. I don't give a crippa crap.

[Dougie]

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

I am sorry, but it is unclear to me when you say in the same sentance that an individual member shows bias that does not reflect their organization's mission.

I am sorry, but the way an individual member behaves does reflect on the entire organization. And for the D9, we are judged accordingly. Just ask any of the D9 members who have colors that resemble notorious gangs and when they are stopped because of DWB... If I have not heard or seen it a dozen times after the Long Beach Step Show...

And to be blunt about it: you said "today's society". What does this mean from my perspective? Because, I think "today's society" is just as EFFed up compared to past societies, like my Sorority sister Mom's who got water cannoned for equality or my Dad's who is an Alpha Phi Alpha Fraternity, Inc. member who was arrested and jailed for protesting at a lunch counter...

Today's society is not that much better and whoever says that chit can go EFF themselves. I don't give a crippa crap.

First, the conduct of its individual members reflects on every Greek organization (sometimes all Greek orgs if you’re talking about barbarians' perspectives). That's how it is for all of us, IFC, NPC or NPHC

Second, how on earth is she supposed to know your perspective? I mean honestly. I’ve had long conversations with members of The Movement, one of whom was even a former chairman of SNCC. And after listening to them, I don’t know how you can say things aren’t better. “Today’s Society” may not be perfect, but the generation that was water cannoned and jailed just because they wanted equality made great strides forward. Further, to say “today’s society isn’t much better” is foolish and discounts all that was achieved in the Sixties and Seventies. But I digress, as was previously stated, this is the subject of another conversation.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by Dougie

First, the conduct of its individual members reflects on every Greek organization (sometimes all Greek orgs if you’re talking about barbarians' perspectives). That's how it is for all of us, IFC, NPC or NPHC

Only a little bit.

[L.O.C.K.]

dude...this thread is wearin me out.

I think it's good to have these discussions as long as we don't make personal attacks on people. The only way we will get better as a society is from looking at things from someone elses point of view and stepping into their shoes for awhile.

And anything we say on this site or anywhere else reflects on our orgs whether we like it or not...esp if we have our org in our sig or our username.

It's just life and it's part of being Greek.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by L.O.C.K.

site or anywhere else reflects on our orgs whether we like it or not...esp if we have our org in our sig or our username.

It's just life and it's part of being Greek.

I wear my sunglasses at night. Does Delta make me do it?

[DSTRen13]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

I wear my sunglasses at night. Does Delta make me do it?

I thought only the Kappas that had that rule.

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by Dougie

First, the conduct of its individual members reflects on every Greek organization (sometimes all Greek orgs if you’re talking about barbarians' perspectives). That's how it is for all of us, IFC, NPC or NPHC

Second, how on earth is she supposed to know your perspective? I mean honestly. I’ve had long conversations with members of The Movement, one of whom was even a former chairman of SNCC. And after listening to them, I don’t know how you can say things aren’t better. “Today’s Society” may not be perfect, but the generation that was water cannoned and jailed just because they wanted equality made great strides forward. Further, to say “today’s society isn’t much better” is foolish and discounts all that was achieved in the Sixties and Seventies. But I digress, as was previously stated, this is the subject of another conversation.

You have not read the entire topic board. If you did, Drollefille and I were have an A and B conversation. Then you chimed in to post your perspective only reading her posts but not mine. That's fine. But your choice to ignore my posts and elevate hers as law? WTH?

And besides, Drolefille knows who I am. She has seen a significant portions of my posts. Whether she agrees with them or disagrees, it is about mutual respect for one's ideas that we have completely lost within the last 6 months of GC. Enough for me to question why I am here at my age and the insanity of it. Young people pipin' up into elder's faces saying ignorant silliness where the older ones are left scratching there heads and saying I've got my anti-hypertensives... It is plainly disrespectful.

As such, I have resorted to "ole skool" tactics that the kiddies don't know about... "Like a 12" cut of disco kryptonite".

If you choose not to read the entire topic or posts, then don't speak on comments when you lack following the conversation. Because context is everything here. If you lack context, you are no longer communicating with an audience.

When one does that, they are being a flummocky baffoon.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

I am sorry, but it is unclear to me when you say in the same sentance that an individual member shows bias that does not reflect their organization's mission.

I am sorry, but the way an individual member behaves does reflect on the entire organization. And for the D9, we are judged accordingly. Just ask any of the D9 members who have colors that resemble notorious gangs and when they are stopped because of DWB... If I have not heard or seen it a dozen times after the Long Beach Step Show...

And to be blunt about it: you said "today's society". What does this mean from my perspective? Because, I think "today's society" is just as EFFed up compared to past societies, like my Sorority sister Mom's who got water cannoned for equality or my Dad's who is an Alpha Phi Alpha Fraternity, Inc. member who was arrested and jailed for protesting at a lunch counter...

Today's society is not that much better and whoever says that chit can go EFF themselves. I don't give a crippa crap.

While it is true that one person can make an organization look bad, I feel that in an intelligent discussion, it's not that difficult to keep from generalizing the individual to the group. It is not my decision whether having members state they wouldn't vote for white people is an acceptable image to portray for the organization, I'm not in charge and I'm not a member. I'm not speaking about the organizational level, but at the individual level.

I'll clarify, and individual member's bias is not indicative of a bias in the organization of which he or she is a member. Better?

The only time I got close to commenting on a macro level was a situation where an entire chapter is against voting for white people thus creating a majority vote.

I can't speak for the years gone by, I'm just of this generation. But I see very positive trends in society, particularly in young people. We will have to wait and see if this holds true when my generation is the one in power. But then, I'm also an optimist at heart.

When I say today's society, I may still be optimistic, but our world is slightly better today than yesterday.

[starang21]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

I, personally, find their views disappointing and biased, and because these views contradict those of their national organization.

who cares? being biased and prejudiced is human nature, and while some people on here like to prance around like this is the UN or some sort of utopia....we're all biased and prejudiced to some degree. it is what it is, whether or not you like it or whether or not you choose to acknowledge your own baises and prejudices.

whether or not you're disappointed by someone's belief system and how it applies to their organization is irrelevant and insignificant because it's not your organization. you're a nobody when it comes to someone else's organizational processes.

[FAMUDva]

This thread is interesting at points, but it's tiring... WOW!

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by starang21

who cares? being biased and prejudiced is human nature, and while some people on here like to prance around like this is the UN or some sort of utopia....we're all biased and prejudiced to some degree. it is what it is, whether or not you like it or whether or not you choose to acknowledge your own baises and prejudices.

Ha, yeah, the UN is probably not the best choice there. But seriously, should you hide behind "everyone is prejudiced" or acknowledge them and work toward peeling them away? I vote the latter.

whether or not you're disappointed by someone's belief system and how it applies to their organization is irrelevant and insignificant because it's not your organization. you're a nobody when it comes to someone else's organizational processes.

Yep I agree.
See, you're only saying what I've said all along. Except that insofar as this is a public message board, and I wanted to discuss it, I brought it up. And I discussed it. I'm not trying to change anyone's organizational processes or change anyone's individual vote, I really don't have that much faith in the power of the internet argument.

Also, I've addressed all of this before.

[starang21]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

should you hide behind "everyone is prejudiced" or acknowledge them and work toward peeling them away?

who's hiding? that's accepting reality, and considering the history of this country.....i'm inclined to believe that chastising members on their personal beliefs of membership into their own organization is hardly peeling anything away.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by starang21

who's hiding? that's accepting reality, and considering the history of this country.....i'm inclined to believe that chastising members on their personal beliefs of membership into their own organization is hardly peeling anything away.

Do you think it's ok?

I don't. Since I don't think it's ok, I see "everyone is biased" as an excuse not to try to work out one's own biases.

Also, I never said that I'm the one peeling away anything, but that doing so is preferable to just saying "everyone does it" and acting like that's ok.

[starang21]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

Do you think it's ok?

I don't. Since I don't think it's ok, I see "everyone is biased" as an excuse not to try to work out one's own biases.

Also, I never said that I'm the one peeling away anything, but that doing so is preferable to just saying "everyone does it" and acting like that's ok.

and what exactly is wrong with bias? ones of the definitions of the word is to show an inclincation or favoritism towards something. i see absolutely nothing wrong with showing that in a member selection process. particularly if it's a private ballot. again, these are individual biases and not general ones. everyone has them, even you.