The Devil's Advocate: Imus/Rap industry

[lovelyivy84]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

My white opinion is that nobody should tell them what to say or how to say it.

I fully agree- and that is why none of us in the black community can stop them.

We have no right to tell them what to say/express.

We are not the primary consumers of their work, so our lack of monetary support has no effect on them whatsoever (as it is I doubt many people who actually buy hip-hop in the "community" are paying more than 5 bucks at the bootleg man ANYWAY, we are currently not supporting them with our money as it is).

Historically, when a black leader (ha ha) has offered any censure, their sales have gone up.

The only protests that I've seen that I thought were in any way significant were those like the Spelman women's refusal to have Nelly come speak on their campus. But even that did not affect his overall popularity in the slightes, it just sent a clear message to the few people who were payign attention (I only read about it on gc).

So I guess I just don't understand what the fabled "black community" is supposed to do next.

[Honeykiss1974]

Originally Posted by lovelyivy84

So I guess I just don't understand what the fabled "black community" is supposed to do next.

I don't think it matters as to "who" purchases the most of this music because those dollars in no way compare to the amount of money that we spend on the consumer goods of their record label's parent company. Many of the labels that specializes in the artist with degrading lyrics are owned by diversified companies that also own other business ventures such as clothing lines, alcohol, restaurants, etc.

Since we are the largest group of consumer goods (clothing, cars, etc.), we can hit their sponsors in the pocketbook. The benefactors extend well beyond the record label, but goes into a host of other areas such as clothing, vehicles, etc. If anything else, we KNOW that there is power in the dollar.

The sales of Sony's playstation well exceed the record sales of a rap artist on one of their record labels. I guarentee that if we boycotted buying their products (playstation) because they chose to produce these types of artist on their recod labels, then something would happen.

[lovelyivy84]

Originally Posted by Honeykiss1974

The sales of Sony's playstation well exceed the record sales of a rap artist on one of their record labels. I guarentee that if we boycotted buying their products (playstation) because they chose to produce these types of artist on their recod labels, then something would happen.

Things like that can work (Pepsi did drop Ludacris) and then they can backfire(Body Count by Ice-T) making the artists into pop culture/free speech icons. The companies will find another less public way to make money through the artist that just got all that nice free publicity.

I dunno, maybe I am just extremely cynical about the ability of any protests to stop America's corporate tastemakers.

[Little32]

Originally Posted by Honeykiss1974

The sales of Sony's playstation well exceed the record sales of a rap artist on one of their record labels. I guarentee that if we boycotted buying their products (playstation) because they chose to produce these types of artist on their recod labels, then something would happen.

Which may just be that the corporations stop pressuring those people to produce certain kind of music. There is another thread where we discuss this stagnation in mainstream hip-hop, which is the product of the corporations that market and produce the music.
I think folks should be able to say whatever they want to say, but they should be prepared to accept the consequences of that language, whatever those consequences might be. However, I certainly don't have to listen to it, support it, or endorse it, and please, don't try and sell it to me as poetry--like Russell Simmons is trying to.

[shinerbock]

Well, I don't think the black community should "do" anything. My comments on a potential double standard aside, I personally am not that concerned with the music itself.

However, regardless of consumerism, I think that significant segment of black culture does glorify some of the "statuses" in rap music. Thats where the problem lies (white people do it to, but I think its more pervasive in the black community), the ideal situation is if people could enjoy rap, but not let its message have such a profound impact on popular culture.

I'm not really that concerned with the degradation of women/violence aspect of rap (I mean, I don't like it, but I haven't personally seen any effects of it). What I do see though, is simply irresponsible living. Its not just rap, its popular culture at large, but the rap "culture", if you will, makes a substantial contribution to it.

[Honeykiss1974]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

Well, I don't think the black community should "do" anything. My comments on a potential double standard aside, I personally am not that concerned with the music itself.

However, regardless of consumerism, I think that significant segment of black culture does glorify some of the "statuses" in rap music. Thats where the problem lies (white people do it to, but I think its more pervasive in the black community), the ideal situation is if people could enjoy rap, but not let its message have such a profound impact on popular culture.

I'm not really that concerned with the degradation of women/violence aspect of rap (I mean, I don't like it, but I haven't personally seen any effects of it). What I do see though, is simply irresponsible living. Its not just rap, its popular culture at large, but the rap "culture", if you will, makes a substantial contribution to it.

Shinerbock, if your issue is with "the lifestyle of excess", rap culture HARDLY makes a substantial contribution to it. Does it contribute to it - yes, but its not the only influential factor. It didn't in the 80's and it doesn't now. If anything, rap (as well as other entertainers) are trendsetters - which can change in an instant.

What contributes to it now is the fact that we have 24/7 coverage of what I like to call "the hollywood lifestyle" and the fact that corporations/advertisers convince us that it is possible for regular people to live like Paris Hilton (or insert the name of the latest celeb ). They convince us that we you can and should have the $500 sunglasses, the Prada bag, drive the Mercedes E-Class and wear the designer clothes all on a teacher's salary. That lifestyle isn't something that is not attainable anymore, but is available to every regular person nowadays - so go for it.

...and because we are saturated with the celebrity lifestyle/news each and everyday, most people swallow the bait.

It's like the "keeping up with the jones" mentality but flashier.

[shinerbock]

Originally Posted by Honeykiss1974

Shinerbock, if your issue is with "the lifestyle of excess", rap culture HARDLY makes a substantial contribution to it. Does it contribute to it - yes, but its not the only influential factor. It didn't in the 80's and it doesn't now. If anything, rap (as well as other entertainers) are trendsetters - which can change in an instant.

What contributes to it now is the fact that we have 24/7 coverage of what I like to call "the hollywood lifestyle" and the fact that corporations/advertisers convince us that it is possible for regular people to live like Paris Hilton (or insert the name of the latest celeb ). They convince us that we you can and should have the $500 sunglasses, the Prada bag, drive the Mercedes E-Class and wear the designer clothes all on a teacher's salary. That lifestyle isn't something that is not attainable anymore, but is available to every regular person nowadays - so go for it.

...and because we are saturated with the celebrity lifestyle/news each and everyday, most people swallow the bait.

It's like the "keeping up with the jones" mentality but flashier.

I don't think its insignificant at all, I think rap has plenty to do with that, especially among guys. I think theres a pretty significant blending of rap and Hollywood, and frankly most guys aren't out there going "man, I wanna be a balla like Ryan Phillipe". Also, that culture has blended even more so with sports than Hollywood. With girls, I definitely think you're right, though, about Hollywood.

I know I don't see everything that goes on in the country, but I just don't see as many white people saying "damn i gotta be like Colin Ferrell" and drinking what he does and dressing like he dresses. I'm absolutely positive it happens, but from my perspective, I see a whole lot more black people emulating the rap/sports lifestyle than I do white people trying to live up to Hollywood standards. As a disclaimer, I think part of the reason behind this is that the lavish lifestyles that black men try to emulate are often more apparent. I can't always spot Ferragamo, but I can easily identify escalades with chrome.

[Honeykiss1974]

I live/work in a predominately white environment and I know PLENTY of people that try to live the "hollywood lifestyle" on their paycheck. It as commonplace as air.

Anyway, we could discuss our personal experiences all day, but I feel its really an insignificant tangent.