The Devil's Advocate: Imus/Rap industry

[Little32]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

I think people just have trouble believing that the black community's mainstream leadership has been proactive in this, while they surely are regarding other issues (white on black racist speech).

Question #1: Who are these leaders that your refer to? The people that we see on tv every time there is a need for a soundbite from a black face, or the activists, scholars, preachers, and less well-known community leaders that have been speaking about these issues for years?

Questions #2: Are we to be held responsible for or even to take into consideration people's "disbelief"? Or are those disbelieving folk to be held responsible for not educating themselves, as to how this issue has been and continues to be addressed by leaders on multiple levels in black communities, before proclaiming that nothing has been done?

I think TonyB's comments are right on target. As, of course, this is an issue of the denigration of Black Womanhood, I too am interested to see what happens when the hype about the white man at the center of this discussion fades.

[shinerbock]

Originally Posted by Little32

Question #1: Who are these leaders that your refer to? The people that we see on tv every time there is a need for a soundbite from a black face, or the activists, scholars, preachers, and less well-known community leaders that have been speaking about these issues for years?

Questions #2: Are we to be held responsible for or even to take into consideration people's "disbelief"? Or are those disbelieving folk to be held responsible for not educating themselves, as to how this issue has been and continues to be addressed by leaders on multiple levels in black communities, before proclaiming that nothing has been done?

I think TonyB's comments are right on target. As, of course, this is an issue of the denigration of Black Womanhood, I too am interested to see what happens when the hype about the white man at the center of this discussion fades.

#1, I mean the people in the mainstream. Not the community leaders with limited following. Lets be honest, a lot of you guys on here are among the upper echelon in your communities. Well educated, well off, etc, same as the white people on here. You're much more likely to be in touch with the more subdued, responsible leaders within the black community. However, what I'm talking about are the leaders, like Sharpton and Jackson, who can mobilize large numbers quickly and act as the self-elected representatives of the black community.

#2, When it comes to disbelief, its either accept what people like you assert (those who think there isn't any double standard), or accept what they have seen over the years. Is it really mainstream if people have to "educate" themselves to find out about it?

[33girl]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

self-elected representatives of the black community.

Michael Jackson is the self-elected "King of Pop Music." So answer me 2 things:

-When's the last time you listened to pop (that is, popular, mainstream) music?

-When's the last time you listened to anything new by Michael Jackson?

I rest my case.

[shinerbock]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Michael Jackson is the self-elected "King of Pop Music." So answer me 2 things:

-When's the last time you listened to pop (that is, popular, mainstream) music?

-When's the last time you listened to anything new by Michael Jackson?

I rest my case.

If you rest your case, then you lose on the merits. Completely irrelevant.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

If you rest your case, then you lose on the merits. Completely irrelevant.

You are just completely missing the point that just because Al Sharpton does this or that, doesn't mean 98% of the Black community (or the earth in general) gives a crap because he and/or the media have deemed him a "spokesman."

[shinerbock]

Originally Posted by 33girl

You are just completely missing the point that just because Al Sharpton does this or that, doesn't mean 98% of the Black community (or the earth in general) gives a crap because he and/or the media have deemed him a "spokesman."

Uh, thats not even a point that needs making. I've said numerous times through this whole ordeal that I realize Sharpton and Co. don't represent all black people. However, he does mobilize them with ease, and he is a mainstream leader. I agree that the media aids him, but I simply think it would be false to say Sharpton and Jackson aren't extremely influential leaders within the black community.

[jubilance1922]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

Uh, thats not even a point that needs making. I've said numerous times through this whole ordeal that I realize Sharpton and Co. don't represent all black people. However, he does mobilize them with ease, and he is a mainstream leader. I agree that the media aids him, but I simply think it would be false to say Sharpton and Jackson aren't extremely influential leaders within the black community.

I have no clue who these folks are that Sharpton "mobilized". The majority of African Americans that I know would actually prefer if Sharpton and Jackson stepped back sometimes instead of constantly leading the world to believe that they are "champions of all causes related to Black people".

As been mentioned, various individuals and groups have been vocal and outspoken about the language and images in rap music. But news channels don't care about that fight, they simply call up the two Black people they have on speed-dial, Sharpton and Jackson.

ETA: I don't know how "influential" they are either...

[Still BLUTANG]

the fact of the matter remains that there HAS BEEN outrage, see TonyB's post above.

Earlier this week on the Today Show, Meridith V. barely gave Dr. Tatum an opportunity to cite the times our community (and Spelman women in particluar) have stood up to bring attention to this problem, and try to find solutions.

Just because mainstream media has overlooked it, doesn't mean the Black Community hasn't made efforts to counter negative messages in "hip hop."

[jon1856]

Originally Posted by Little32

Question #1: Who are these leaders that your refer to? The people that we see on tv every time there is a need for a soundbite from a black face, or the activists, scholars, preachers, and less well-known community leaders that have been speaking about these issues for years?

Questions #2: Are we to be held responsible for or even to take into consideration people's "disbelief"? Or are those disbelieving folk to be held responsible for not educating themselves, as to how this issue has been and continues to be addressed by leaders on multiple levels in black communities, before proclaiming that nothing has been done?

I think TonyB's comments are right on target. As, of course, this is an issue of the denigration of Black Womanhood, I too am interested to see what happens when the hype about the white man at the center of this discussion fades.

You answered your own question while asking it.
Just who gets the face and/or air time?
Who do the politicians try to get close to?
And who gets time with the politicians?

[Lady of Pearl]

Forty years ago, Imus' remarks would not have been tolerated on national tv ; given the fact that our country was in the midst of the civil rights era. Also strong censorship and something known as the FCC wold not have allowed it to happen. So, have we digressed in the name of Free Speech? I don't care who makes denigrating remarks about Black women-Imus or the rappers, or the Boys on the Block, or construction workers. Harrassment and derogatory remarks about women is wrong. We need to look closely at what drives this misogynistic spirit in our country and seriously do some reeducating to all.

[Little32]

Originally Posted by jon1856

You answered your own question while asking it.
Just who gets the face and/or air time?
Who do the politicians try to get close to?
And who gets time with the politicians?

And I guess the answer to all of these question is more people than you know about, because there are a lot of people working in our communities who do not court publicity in the same ways that others do. Does that mean that they are not working as hard or excercising as much influence? I don't think it does.

So that you might conceptualize this a bit better, think about the heavy hitters in the white community--I presume you are white. Think about the people that you would say have a good deal of clout in your--meaning where you live--community. Are those the people that you see on the news discussing issues that impact your community? Are they the people that you always see in front of the cameras? If I were to say that John Edwards were a leader of white America, because he is a white man that gets a lot of camera time, I would get a lot of objections from a lot of conservatives who would say "he doesn't represent me", and those would be legitimate objections. He represents, perhaps, a faction of white Americans and perhaps a relatively small faction at that.

Now, take that concept and apply it to black communities. These people that you see in the news all of the time are not the only people representing us. Bottom line, there are a lot more people working behind the scenes, organizing protests, and taking action that you don't know about.