The Devil's Advocate: Imus/Rap industry

[pinkies up]

Russell Simmons needs to sit down somewhere.

[Still BLUTANG]

russy doesn't want to bite the hand that feeds him.

[Little32]

Originally Posted by pinkies up

Russell Simmons needs to sit down somewhere.

I was watching Oprah yesterday and he kept insisting on calling these rappers artists and poets, and I am sorry but not all of them are. And the ubiquity of this derogatory language in a rap song is not explained away by the fact that they are poets holding up a mirror that reflects their experience. If they are poets 1) they should have a greater command of language so that they do not use the same language over and over again; 2)they should be conscious of the way that they are using language (and I just don't see that kind of consciousness reflected in much of this music); 3) there should be more depth to the experience that they mirror; Our communities are not one-dimensional filled with loose moraled women and men, drugs, and bling. There is much more going on there, and a poet should be able to capture these things.

I agree that we need to address the conditions that some of these artists rap about, but at the same time there are a lot of other artists that don't use that kind of language and still manage to communicate a message and a truth about their experience.

[shinerbock]

Originally Posted by Little32

I was watching Oprah yesterday and he kept insisting on calling this rappers artists and poets, and I am sorry but not all of them are. And the ubiquity of this derogatory language in a rap song is not explained away by the fact that they are poets holding up a mirror that reflects their experience. If the are poets 1) they should have a greater command of language so that they do not use the same language over and over again; 2)they should be conscious of the way that they are using language (and I just don't see that kind of consciousness reflected in much of this music); 3) there should be more depth to the experience that they mirror; Our communities are not one-dimensional filled with loose moraled women and men, drugs, and bling. There is much more going on there, and a poet should be able to capture these things.

I agree that we need to address the conditions that some of these artists rap about, but at the same time there are a lot of other artists that don't use that kind of language and still manage to communicate a message and a truth about their experience.

My white opinion is that nobody should tell them what to say or how to say it. The problem obviously comes not with what they say, but how society chooses to glorify it.

[lovelyivy84]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

My white opinion is that nobody should tell them what to say or how to say it.

I fully agree- and that is why none of us in the black community can stop them.

We have no right to tell them what to say/express.

We are not the primary consumers of their work, so our lack of monetary support has no effect on them whatsoever (as it is I doubt many people who actually buy hip-hop in the "community" are paying more than 5 bucks at the bootleg man ANYWAY, we are currently not supporting them with our money as it is).

Historically, when a black leader (ha ha) has offered any censure, their sales have gone up.

The only protests that I've seen that I thought were in any way significant were those like the Spelman women's refusal to have Nelly come speak on their campus. But even that did not affect his overall popularity in the slightes, it just sent a clear message to the few people who were payign attention (I only read about it on gc).

So I guess I just don't understand what the fabled "black community" is supposed to do next.

[Honeykiss1974]

Originally Posted by lovelyivy84

So I guess I just don't understand what the fabled "black community" is supposed to do next.

I don't think it matters as to "who" purchases the most of this music because those dollars in no way compare to the amount of money that we spend on the consumer goods of their record label's parent company. Many of the labels that specializes in the artist with degrading lyrics are owned by diversified companies that also own other business ventures such as clothing lines, alcohol, restaurants, etc.

Since we are the largest group of consumer goods (clothing, cars, etc.), we can hit their sponsors in the pocketbook. The benefactors extend well beyond the record label, but goes into a host of other areas such as clothing, vehicles, etc. If anything else, we KNOW that there is power in the dollar.

The sales of Sony's playstation well exceed the record sales of a rap artist on one of their record labels. I guarentee that if we boycotted buying their products (playstation) because they chose to produce these types of artist on their recod labels, then something would happen.

[lovelyivy84]

Originally Posted by Honeykiss1974

The sales of Sony's playstation well exceed the record sales of a rap artist on one of their record labels. I guarentee that if we boycotted buying their products (playstation) because they chose to produce these types of artist on their recod labels, then something would happen.

Things like that can work (Pepsi did drop Ludacris) and then they can backfire(Body Count by Ice-T) making the artists into pop culture/free speech icons. The companies will find another less public way to make money through the artist that just got all that nice free publicity.

I dunno, maybe I am just extremely cynical about the ability of any protests to stop America's corporate tastemakers.

[Little32]

Originally Posted by Honeykiss1974

The sales of Sony's playstation well exceed the record sales of a rap artist on one of their record labels. I guarentee that if we boycotted buying their products (playstation) because they chose to produce these types of artist on their recod labels, then something would happen.

Which may just be that the corporations stop pressuring those people to produce certain kind of music. There is another thread where we discuss this stagnation in mainstream hip-hop, which is the product of the corporations that market and produce the music.
I think folks should be able to say whatever they want to say, but they should be prepared to accept the consequences of that language, whatever those consequences might be. However, I certainly don't have to listen to it, support it, or endorse it, and please, don't try and sell it to me as poetry--like Russell Simmons is trying to.

[shinerbock]

Well, I don't think the black community should "do" anything. My comments on a potential double standard aside, I personally am not that concerned with the music itself.

However, regardless of consumerism, I think that significant segment of black culture does glorify some of the "statuses" in rap music. Thats where the problem lies (white people do it to, but I think its more pervasive in the black community), the ideal situation is if people could enjoy rap, but not let its message have such a profound impact on popular culture.

I'm not really that concerned with the degradation of women/violence aspect of rap (I mean, I don't like it, but I haven't personally seen any effects of it). What I do see though, is simply irresponsible living. Its not just rap, its popular culture at large, but the rap "culture", if you will, makes a substantial contribution to it.