Negotiation vs. Settling

[Scandia]

Centaur- I have read several of Joshua Harris' books, including "I kissed dating goodbye". Service is NOT a substitute for romance. It is not fair for singles to have to serve while people in relationships are having fun. While I do have a mostly satisfying life being single, let's just say that it involves cultural travel, fun outings with friends, furthering my education, and eccentric hobbies. Certainly not spending all my free time serving others- though I do try to make the world a better place in my own way, and enjoy being a public service children's librarian quite a bit.

Blueangel- no specific person is putting pressure on me, but there is always the societal pressure. And as Centaur said, there is the not so subtle yet very unrealistic expectation that singles should just be content and serve others- which I simply cannot do. In my dating and friendship experience, I have come to realize what is what I want- and how is it similar and/or different than what others want and need. I do work on keeping my life full and interesting.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by Scandia

And as Centaur said, there is the not so subtle yet very unrealistic expectation that singles should just be content and serve others- which I simply cannot do.

My mom was not in the best of health for a long time and one day one of my cousins (actually his wife) said "it would be nice if you would stay around here [here being my dead-end hometown] for the next 10 or so years because of your mom." The implication, of course, was that since I wasn't finding a MAN here in the big city, I should get my butt home and be a caretaker. When I told my mom that, she was so mad I think she wanted to hit my cousin's wife over the head with a pot.

Service is NOT a substitute for love and companionship of a romantic partner. If it were, there would be all-night places to go to teach illiterate adults to read instead of "adult toy stores", LOL.

If you get that kind of pressure on a regular basis, you need to find other types of people to surround yourself with.

[AChiOhSnap]

Originally Posted by 33girl

If you get that kind of pressure on a regular basis, you need to find other types of people to surround yourself with.

Sometimes church/religious organizations tend to use the whole "fullfill yourself through service" as fallback advice to singles (like the "I Kissed Dating Goodbye" book). I think it's hard for religious orgs. to "promote" or advise dating, especially given that modern adult dating isn't the chastest of institutions. So the church advice is really nonadvice: they're essentially saying "Well....do some service to fulfill you until you can find someone who will fulfill you." I think that sentiment is okay for very young singles -- who will probably find someone soon anyway -- but I can imagine how frustrating that would be if that's the ONLY advice you've been given in ten or fifteen years of searching for a partner.

Unfortunately for Scandia, if this pressure is coming from her church (which I'm assuming is very important to her), it would be virtually inescapable.
Scandia's age and the fact that she's never married makes her a rare breed, especially in a religious organization. The Joshua Harrises of the world are giving this advice and service-as-partner-replacement nonsense to older teens and people in their early twenties who make up the majority of the never-married church singles population, not grown-ass women like Scandia.

So correct me if I'm wrong, Scandia, but I think you can safely ignore the pressure to fulfill yourself through service, as it isn't exactly directed at someone in your relatively rare circumstance. If you're actually having people directly tell you to get out there and to give to others through service in lieu of finding a man then

[Scandia]

33girl- well, the pressure is not as direct anymore. Possibly because I am not really in a certain cultural area of the nation, or possibly because the church I attend now is more enlightened. But in certain places, it was almost like serving others was the penalty singles paid for being unattached. I am glad your mother disagreed with your cousin's wife- how rude and entitled of her to think that singles have nothing to do other than serve people.

AChiOhSnap- well, I did not think that being unmarried at 29 was that super rare. But I have found activities and endeavors that fulfill me quite well. Too bad they are selfish ones like traveling to historical places and getting an advanced degree. I did resent being told to serve even as a teen and college student- so it may be my personality. Conversely, a happily married friend of mine volunteers at a soup kitchen and says she receives more from it than what she gives. I have told her how much I admire her for that.

Kevin- well, my adolescence may be nearly over, but I look much younger than my age. A person that makes me happy will fulfill certain requirements- but it is not like I want a professional athlete or someone with a sports car or a GQ model.

[Scandia]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Service is NOT a substitute for love and companionship of a romantic partner. If it were, there would be all-night places to go to teach illiterate adults to read instead of "adult toy stores", LOL.

ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!

As much as I love being a children's librarian, I can NOT use my work with kids to fulfill my emotional needs that long for romantic love.

[laylo]

I would caution readers about the fact that he was only 21 when he wrote the book. But in defense of Mr. Harris, I really don't think his point was "Read to orphans as a substitute for a relationship". He was saying that too many Christians are so marriage-hungry that they lose focus on their own spiritual lives which, like it or not, are supposed to heavily involve serving others (and service does NOT just mean volunteering). If you aren't in the right place spiritually, you shouldn't be making the most important, intimate, and permanent spiritual union of your life. I check for that.

[GeekyPenguin]

The problem is that most Christians are so marriage-hungry, period. I think that evangelicals are worse about it than the more mainline denominations, but it's absurd to me to think that I have friends that aren't even 25 who are worried they are going to spend their lives alone because nice girls get married by the time they finish college.

[AlexMack]

Originally Posted by GeekyPenguin

The problem is that most Christians are so marriage-hungry, period. I think that evangelicals are worse about it than the more mainline denominations, but it's absurd to me to think that I have friends that aren't even 25 who are worried they are going to spend their lives alone because nice girls get married by the time they finish college.

So true....so so true. A group of christian teenagers are the most sexually frustrated people on the planet. And they're not supposed to have premarital sex so they try to marry off as early as possible. So many christian couples get engaged in their late teens to early 20s and then start cranking out kids in their early twenties.
Going to a christian college is like the hunt for a husband not for a degree.
As for Joshua Harris...read his follow-up, Boy Meets Girl. Ugh...ugh ugh ugh. Even when I was a christian I found it way too extreme. Now that I've ditched it completely I find it even more out there, and basically a little insulting that there's no way to grow together emotionally etc. if you're physically involved. Sorry but that's so not true, unless you're truly controlled by your pants.

[tunatartare]

Originally Posted by GeekyPenguin

The problem is that most Christians are so marriage-hungry, period. I think that evangelicals are worse about it than the more mainline denominations, but it's absurd to me to think that I have friends that aren't even 25 who are worried they are going to spend their lives alone because nice girls get married by the time they finish college.

The same is true for Orthodox Jews. An Orthodox friend of mine who is about a year younger than I am got married and moved to Israel two years ago. She wasn't even legally old enough to drink at her own wedding. I saw her over the summer at her younger sister's wedding. She already has one child with another on the way. She just kinda looked at me like "and what have you been doing with your life?" Having fun.

[AKA_Monet]

Scandia,

You need to know how to be married if you want to get married.

"I kissed dating goodbye" is okay, but not as helpful to getting married. It is pretty much you ought not have a list and accept the "one" God lead's you to...

Now, if you get an a$$hole, then you probably pushed it and ran up under a guy who does not LOVE you.

A man who loves you will do unbelievable things. I am not talking about psychopathic stalking domestic violence abusers. I am talking about when a man loves a woman or whatever your persuasion... When he does and marriage is what you want, then those are things you don't have to ask for, it will just happen... Almost like magic...

The best you can do is to be in spiritual sync and breathe... Prepare for your mate...

And it is more about collaboration than compromise. You make it all compromise--give & take, the seeds of resentment set in... Make it a collaborative effort, and see how far you both go...

And as for settling... I settled down. I used to partay like a freak, 8 days a week, 25 hours a day... But being with my husband, has calmed my Sith Lord capabilities... And I can become the Jedi I always wanted to be...

Whatever you do, know and do you...

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by GeekyPenguin

The problem is that most Christians are so marriage-hungry, period. I think that evangelicals are worse about it than the more mainline denominations, but it's absurd to me to think that I have friends that aren't even 25 who are worried they are going to spend their lives alone because nice girls get married by the time they finish college.

Visit Oklahoma sometime.