Negotiation vs. Settling

_Opi_ · #1 12-09-2006, 05:15 PM

I'm glad Im not the only one who thought this topic related to law. LOL.

Scandia · #2 12-09-2006, 06:47 PM

FSUZeta- my parents met at their workplace. It was in the early 70s, so laws were much more relaxed back then. A guy willing to convert is fine, as well as one who stays in his denomination but respects mine- but he HAS to believe in God, and his specific beliefs should be close to mine (ie- no fundamentalists or radicals). Regarding intelligence and education- well, the technical diploma is not as extreme a case as someone who has dropped out of high school due to lack of intelligence and ambition. I would have to see exactly if we get along and share the same educational level and interests- in other words, he needs to understand my big words and not make fun of my using them.

Valkyrie- the next to last guy I dated (back in 2004) wanted to have a large family. That is the main reason why things did not work out between us. Sure sure, there were other problems- but if he states this reason to a girl as to why things did not work out between him and I, neither one of us will look bad.

Centaur- this may be due to the language barrier, but for some reason I thought that compromise carried a stronger degree that negotiation. That "negotiate" meant "oh, he has brown hair and eyes, instead of blonde hair and blue eyes which are my preference, but otherwise he meets all my needs and wants", but compromise meant more like "I'll deal with his dislike of animals because he's dealing with my being no good at cooking". And of course, settling was like "he does not have the intelligence or ambition to have a career, but at least he has a job and is not mooching off me, so oh well. Guess I should be grateful for that". And why do you not recommend Joshua Harris?

blueangel · #3 12-09-2006, 08:16 PM

Scandia:

Is someone putting pressure on you to get married?

Do you know yourself well enough in order to be able to know what you're seeking? Do you know what's really important to you? Have you ever sat down and done any real soul searching to figure out what type of man would make you happy?

Maybe you would want to turn off what your friends and your family are telling you about what's right in a man for you... and listen to yourself. Afterall, only YOU know what's right for YOU.

Remember that your mother, your sister, and your best friend are all different people with different tastes, values, and needs and wants than you. The perfect man for your best friend or your mother may not be the perfect man for you.. so don't let them pick him for you. If you do.. you'll probably be miserable.

Right now, you're dating and seeing what works for you and what doesn't. As you go out with different men, see if you can identify which qualities are uppermost in what you're looking for. In other words, what are your "musts" and what are your "deal breakers?"

Some things to think about...

-Is he honest?

-Is he loving and caring?

-Do you two have enough in common in order to do things together far in the future? (An example might be-- you might have a passion for traveling, but he'd rather stay at home. Would this be a problem in the future? Or would you be happy traveling alone while he stays home?)

-On the other hand, do you both have your own separate interests so you can still be happy doing your own thing once in a while?

-How important is financial stabilty to you?

And here are some examples of what you may or not consider deal breakers:

-Does it bother you if he smokes? Or drinks? Or does drugs?

-Has he lied to you?

-Does he want kids and you don't?

-Is he deeply in debt? Or do you care?

Finally, I would urge you not to take dating as a "life or death" thing right now. Go out and have fun. Stop stressing over it. Once you feel confident in who you are.. when the right guy comes around, you'll know it.

Kevin · #4 12-12-2006, 12:28 AM

You're pretty young, aren't you Scandia? Where I'm from (Oklahoma), there's pressure to marry off pretty young --people thing there's something wrong with you if you ain't hitched as soon as you finish either HS or your undergrad degree.

I get to see the stupidity in that societal pressure though. I work in a law office which does probably 75% matrimonial law. The bottom line is that you CAN and SHOULD wait. When the time is right, the time is right.

I don't understand why you'd really need to have a list looking for specific factors. It's not like you're going car shopping. Just find someone who makes you happy. Checks on a list aren't going to do that for you though.

AlexMack · #5 12-10-2006, 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scandia

Centaur- this may be due to the language barrier, but for some reason I thought that compromise carried a stronger degree that negotiation. That "negotiate" meant "oh, he has brown hair and eyes, instead of blonde hair and blue eyes which are my preference, but otherwise he meets all my needs and wants", but compromise meant more like "I'll deal with his dislike of animals because he's dealing with my being no good at cooking". And of course, settling was like "he does not have the intelligence or ambition to have a career, but at least he has a job and is not mooching off me, so oh well. Guess I should be grateful for that". And why do you not recommend Joshua Harris?

No biggie...we'd just call it a compromise. The More You Know...
As for Joshua Harris. Well, let's just say he's more than unreasonable. Have you ever heard of a book called 'I Kissed Dating Goodbye'? He basically goes on and on about staying pure and true to god and making sure you're so satisfied being single (by doing service etc.) that it doesn't matter whether or not you ever find yourself a partner. It's just out there, hardcore and basically unrealistic. Try it if you want, but I wouldn't spend money on it. Or his second book about how he met his wife.

Scandia · #6 12-10-2006, 08:59 AM

Centaur- I have read several of Joshua Harris' books, including "I kissed dating goodbye". Service is NOT a substitute for romance. It is not fair for singles to have to serve while people in relationships are having fun. While I do have a mostly satisfying life being single, let's just say that it involves cultural travel, fun outings with friends, furthering my education, and eccentric hobbies. Certainly not spending all my free time serving others- though I do try to make the world a better place in my own way, and enjoy being a public service children's librarian quite a bit.

Blueangel- no specific person is putting pressure on me, but there is always the societal pressure. And as Centaur said, there is the not so subtle yet very unrealistic expectation that singles should just be content and serve others- which I simply cannot do. In my dating and friendship experience, I have come to realize what is what I want- and how is it similar and/or different than what others want and need. I do work on keeping my life full and interesting.

33girl · #7 12-12-2006, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scandia

And as Centaur said, there is the not so subtle yet very unrealistic expectation that singles should just be content and serve others- which I simply cannot do.

My mom was not in the best of health for a long time and one day one of my cousins (actually his wife) said "it would be nice if you would stay around here [here being my dead-end hometown] for the next 10 or so years because of your mom." The implication, of course, was that since I wasn't finding a MAN here in the big city, I should get my butt home and be a caretaker. When I told my mom that, she was so mad I think she wanted to hit my cousin's wife over the head with a pot.

Service is NOT a substitute for love and companionship of a romantic partner. If it were, there would be all-night places to go to teach illiterate adults to read instead of "adult toy stores", LOL.

If you get that kind of pressure on a regular basis, you need to find other types of people to surround yourself with.

AChiOhSnap · #8 12-12-2006, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 33girl

If you get that kind of pressure on a regular basis, you need to find other types of people to surround yourself with.

Sometimes church/religious organizations tend to use the whole "fullfill yourself through service" as fallback advice to singles (like the "I Kissed Dating Goodbye" book). I think it's hard for religious orgs. to "promote" or advise dating, especially given that modern adult dating isn't the chastest of institutions. So the church advice is really nonadvice: they're essentially saying "Well....do some service to fulfill you until you can find someone who will fulfill you." I think that sentiment is okay for very young singles -- who will probably find someone soon anyway -- but I can imagine how frustrating that would be if that's the ONLY advice you've been given in ten or fifteen years of searching for a partner.

Unfortunately for Scandia, if this pressure is coming from her church (which I'm assuming is very important to her), it would be virtually inescapable.
Scandia's age and the fact that she's never married makes her a rare breed, especially in a religious organization. The Joshua Harrises of the world are giving this advice and service-as-partner-replacement nonsense to older teens and people in their early twenties who make up the majority of the never-married church singles population, not grown-ass women like Scandia.

So correct me if I'm wrong, Scandia, but I think you can safely ignore the pressure to fulfill yourself through service, as it isn't exactly directed at someone in your relatively rare circumstance. If you're actually having people directly tell you to get out there and to give to others through service in lieu of finding a man then

Scandia · #9 12-12-2006, 07:34 PM

33girl- well, the pressure is not as direct anymore. Possibly because I am not really in a certain cultural area of the nation, or possibly because the church I attend now is more enlightened. But in certain places, it was almost like serving others was the penalty singles paid for being unattached. I am glad your mother disagreed with your cousin's wife- how rude and entitled of her to think that singles have nothing to do other than serve people.

AChiOhSnap- well, I did not think that being unmarried at 29 was that super rare. But I have found activities and endeavors that fulfill me quite well. Too bad they are selfish ones like traveling to historical places and getting an advanced degree. I did resent being told to serve even as a teen and college student- so it may be my personality. Conversely, a happily married friend of mine volunteers at a soup kitchen and says she receives more from it than what she gives. I have told her how much I admire her for that.

Kevin- well, my adolescence may be nearly over, but I look much younger than my age. A person that makes me happy will fulfill certain requirements- but it is not like I want a professional athlete or someone with a sports car or a GQ model.

Scandia · #10 12-12-2006, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 33girl

Service is NOT a substitute for love and companionship of a romantic partner. If it were, there would be all-night places to go to teach illiterate adults to read instead of "adult toy stores", LOL.

ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!

As much as I love being a children's librarian, I can NOT use my work with kids to fulfill my emotional needs that long for romantic love.

laylo · #11 12-12-2006, 08:32 PM

I would caution readers about the fact that he was only 21 when he wrote the book. But in defense of Mr. Harris, I really don't think his point was "Read to orphans as a substitute for a relationship". He was saying that too many Christians are so marriage-hungry that they lose focus on their own spiritual lives which, like it or not, are supposed to heavily involve serving others (and service does NOT just mean volunteering). If you aren't in the right place spiritually, you shouldn't be making the most important, intimate, and permanent spiritual union of your life. I check for that.