SMU student found dead at SAE House

[Elephant Walk]

I think he was referring more to Tom, not Delt.

It doesn't deserve to be in the Risk/Hazing section

[DeltAlum]

Originally Posted by Elephant Walk

I think he was referring more to Tom, not Delt.

Oh, my best guess is that he might have been talking about me.

That's OK. We don't agree on a number of things.

But here's the deal. Shortly after this forum was opened, I was the moderator (of this as well as Greek Life, Chit Chat and Delta Tau Delta) and John (the administrator) pretty much said to run it as I saw fit. I did that for quite a while.

Kevin is now the moderator, and I assume that John told him to run it as he sees fit as well.

Kevin is a good moderator and if he feels that something is in the wrong forum, he will move it where he thinks it belongs. I also think that if he feels I (or anyone else) am out of line, he will tell me/us -- or simply delete my/our posts.

This thread could have gone in either Greek Life or Risk Management -- but since it ended up in this one, I don't think it's out of line to explore the potential Risk Management issues involved.

Finally, when I say respectfully, I mean exactly that -- with respect. There's no reason I can think of to quote that word parenthetically.

Thanks LaneSig for the kind support.

[exlurker]

Update Wed. Dec. 20, 2006:

Several news sources in Texas are reporting that the medical examiner has determined the cause of Mr. Stiles' death was an overdose -- "a lethal combination of cocaine, ethynol and fentanyl," as one news piece put it:

http://www.myfoxdfw.com/myfox/pages/...Y&pageId=3.2.1

[macallan25]

The fentanyl is what killed him. I'm sure he took it when he got home to go to sleep. Pain Killers and blow don't mix.

[jon1856]

A few more reports with some more details on drug:
http://www.kvue.com/news/state/stori....2baf341b.html
By JASON TRAHAN / The Dallas Morning News


John Schreiber/The Daily Campus
The drug can be lethal if taken outside a prescription.

A rare but expensive drug sometimes absorbed through lollipops contributed to the death of a 20-year-old Southern Methodist University student in early December.
The Dallas County medical examiner has determined that Jacob Stiles overdosed on a toxic mixture of cocaine, alcohol and the synthetic opiate fentanyl.
The drug is used as a painkiller, but in any form fentanyl can be lethal if taken outside a prescription.
“People have died with needles in their arms,” said Kurt Kleinschmidt, an associate professor of emergency medicine at UT Southwestern Medical Center and toxicologist with the North Texas Poison Center.
“What’s really nasty about fentanyl (is) it’s a more potent narcotic than heroin or morphine - up to 100 times," Dr. Kleinschmidt said. "People can have overdoses and not know what they’ve gotten themselves into."
One expert said that nationally, more abusers prefer fentanyl patches over the lollipops. Some people apply more than one patch, while more hardcore users get a syringe and extract the drug right out of the patch.
Local, state and federal officials say that abuse of fentanyl is on the rise, but the facts it is expensive and hard to get have kept it from spreading more quickly.
Abuse is relatively rare, mostly because of the high cost. But about a month ago, a health insurance company alerted Dallas police to some suspiciously large prescription orders billed to their company for Actiq, which is fentanyl in a berry-flavored lozenge attached to a stick.
This form of the powerful synthetic opiate is designed to help manage pain of cancer patients who have trouble swallowing. But to abusers, the products are known as “perc-o-pops” or “lollipops,” and because of their potency they can plunge users into a stupor. Mix it with other drugs and the combination can be lethal, experts say.
Dallas police in the past few weeks arrested two workers at a doctor’s office for forging prescriptions for $40,000 of the lollipop form of fentanyl, known under the brand name Actiq.

http://www.dentonrc.com/sharedconten....2b395050.html

No matter just what happened, how it happened, or why it happened, Brother Stiles death is way too early in his life.

[LaneSig]

Originally Posted by jon1856

No matter just what happened, how it happened, or why it happened, Brother Stiles death is way too early in his life.

Amen.

[Elephant Walk]

Originally Posted by macallan25

The fentanyl is what killed him. I'm sure he took it when he got home to go to sleep. Pain Killers and blow don't mix.

Well, the blow mixed with alcohol didn't help matters for sure.

[Reality Check1]

It seems to me the Macallan25 believes he knows a great deal about many things, but it is more likely that he knows nothing about everything.

Your flippant attitude about the circumstances surrounding the Stiles death are completely disgusting. What type of real life knowledge do you have anyway? More than likely you aren't working and everything you have gotten in your life is because of the golden spoon that your parents gave to you.

The members of the SAE Fraternity at SMU should feel awful, because their culture contributed to this young man's death. Did they force him to do drugs? No, but don't tell me that they didn't make access to these things easier for the young man?

Macallan-it must be so easy for you to sit there and pop off time after time about everything. Take a look at yourself in the mirror. This whole incident goes in stark contrast to the brotherhood that a fraternity is supposed to represent.

[33girl]

Macallan is flippant at times, but now certainly isn't one of them. I suggest you reread the thread and pay attention to the context.

[DeltAlum]

Originally Posted by Reality Check1

The members of the SAE Fraternity at SMU should feel awful, because their culture contributed to this young man's death. Did they force him to do drugs? No, but don't tell me that they didn't make access to these things easier for the young man?

We don't know this -- at least I don't.

My guess is that the college culture in general is as much or more of a factor as SAE's.

IF it is a chapter culture, though, I'll say that it should be closed.

[Tom Earp]

Remeber, no matter what GLO it concerns, it concerns all of us as Greek Members.

There is no flip comments as it saddens every member of the Greek Social World.

If someone does do what was supposedly done when it came to drugs then it should be an important part of the Chapter to try to correct it. I do not care what Campus it is on or how strong the GLO is, a young man died and that is what is the most important thing.

I was accused by an SAE for being hard hearted and that must have been why I railed at a local TV station about running and over long item at the top of the 10:00 news about SAE and a hazing situation and being removed from Campus.

If a member of any GLO dies, we must ask why. Then ask why nothing was done to aid the member before this happened.

[Elephant Walk]

Originally Posted by Reality Check1

It seems to me the Macallan25 believes he knows a great deal about many things, but it is more likely that he knows nothing about everything.

The members of the SAE Fraternity at SMU should feel awful, because their culture contributed to this young man's death. Did they force him to do drugs? No, but don't tell me that they didn't make access to these things easier for the young man?

Macallan-it must be so easy for you to sit there and pop off time after time about everything. Take a look at yourself in the mirror. This whole incident goes in stark contrast to the brotherhood that a fraternity is supposed to represent.

Drink bleach.

Fraternity culture? That makes about as much sense as you claiming heterosexuality. Say a guy from Compton or other drug-ridden place somehow by god's saving grace makes it into a fraternity in the South. He was already doing plenty of drugs before hand, and then he gets into the fraternity, does more drugs, and dies. Considering the fraternity may be moderate for their campus in terms of drug use, is it fraternity culture or previous experience which led to the man's death? The drug incident has nothing to do with "brotherhood". My own personal drug use never stemmed from the fraternity, it stemmed from me growing up in a wealthy neighborhood where my friends and I had money to spend on expensive drugs.

[jon1856]

Originally Posted by Elephant Walk

Drink bleach.

Fraternity culture? That makes about as much sense as you claiming heterosexuality. Say a guy from Compton or other drug-ridden place somehow by god's saving grace makes it into a fraternity in the South. He was already doing plenty of drugs before hand, and then he gets into the fraternity, does more drugs, and dies. Considering the fraternity may be moderate for their campus in terms of drug use, is it fraternity culture or previous experience which led to the man's death? The drug incident has nothing to do with "brotherhood". My own personal drug use never stemmed from the fraternity, it stemmed from me growing up in a wealthy neighborhood where my friends and I had money to spend on expensive drugs.

I agree with you Elephant Walk. Fraternity culture?? Try culture. Try society. Try living and life experience/up-bringing.
Was there alcohol and drug use in my chapter? Yes. Did I drink? Yes and learned from that experience. Did I do drugs? I "tasted" one night and learned from that experience that I had no use for them. Also the fact that all of the people I was close to, both a school and at home, did not do any kind of drug outside of alcohol also helped.

Others, I know took a different path for what ever reason or reasons. And that could happen within any living, social group or context.

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by Reality Check1

It seems to me the Macallan25 believes he knows a great deal about many things, but it is more likely that he knows nothing about everything.

Your flippant attitude about the circumstances surrounding the Stiles death are completely disgusting. What type of real life knowledge do you have anyway? More than likely you aren't working and everything you have gotten in your life is because of the golden spoon that your parents gave to you.

The members of the SAE Fraternity at SMU should feel awful, because their culture contributed to this young man's death. Did they force him to do drugs? No, but don't tell me that they didn't make access to these things easier for the young man?

Macallan-it must be so easy for you to sit there and pop off time after time about everything. Take a look at yourself in the mirror. This whole incident goes in stark contrast to the brotherhood that a fraternity is supposed to represent.

Flippant attitude? Shut your fucking mouth because you have no clue what you are talking about. I called more than a dozen members of that chapter..talked to them, offered my heartfelt sorrows.........I even drove up there and attended the vigil. So you can quit with whatever it is you are trying to do. I knew more info on this situation than anyone on this board did 10 minutes after they discovered the body. Perhaps you should re-read the thread and enlighten yourself, because right now you sound like an ignorant jackass.

Explain to me what my "real life" knowledge has anything to do with this guy dying, or knowing how he died, and under what circumstances. Yes, I come from a very priveleged family.......that doesn't mean that I don't know about the way things work or that I am stuck in some bubble, shut off from the outside world.

Who the fuck are you to accuse the members of SMU SAE of helping the guy gain quick access to blow and fentanyl? Do you know all of them? Have you seen it personally? No, thats right. You're full of shit. Admit it.

I'm sorry that me "popping off" at a couple of members of this site for blatantly disregarding this kids death and turning it into some bash SAE Risk Management lecture thread gets your panties in a wad.

I'm done. Also, you're an idiot.

[Elephant Walk]

Yeah, I was going to say something about how I knew you had talked to plenty of people surrounding the young man already, but I figured it was your place.