SMU student found dead at SAE House

[macallan25]

They won't close SAE at SMU.......too powerful...........besides, it was a completely isolated incodent.

[Tom Earp]

It is amazing how some people feel that their Chapter is above their National/International and how they think and feel.

Bravado may seem the thing to do unless you have worked with them one on one, then you may have no idea of what is going on.

Have many gotten out of the little world, Chapter, or area they are in and worked with Members of other Greek Organizations?

A Greek Organization with out Leadership is a Ship with out a Captain.

If what some say that that IHQ's hold a blind eye to transgressions against policy have a lot to learn.

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by Tom Earp

It is amazing how some people feel that their Chapter is above their National/International and how they think and feel.

Bravado may seem the thing to do unless you have worked with them one on one, then you may have no idea of what is going on.

Have many gotten out of the little world, Chapter, or area they are in and worked with Members of other Greek Organizations?

A Greek Organization with out Leadership is a Ship with out a Captain.

If what some say that that IHQ's hold a blind eye to transgressions against policy have a lot to learn.

Oh Jesus....here we go again. Tom, quit with your nonsensical, rambling preacher sessions. You have absolutely no idea what happened. I do. What the hell are you talking about with "transgressions against policy?" The chapter didn't have anything to it.

Instead of force feeding everyone your ideas on your beloved "Nationals/IHQ" and telling us to "get out in the real world"........

[Tom Earp]

Originally Posted by macallan25

Oh Jesus....here we go again. Tom, quit with your nonsensical, bullshit, rambling preacher sessions. You have absolutely no idea what happened. I do. What the hell are you talking about with "transgressions against policy?" The chapter didn't have anything to it.

Instead of force feeding everyone your ideas on your beloved "Nationals/IHQ" and telling us to "get out in the real world"........how about you show some fucking respect.

I would be more than happy to if the same respect is shown to others .

But, I am afraid you have no clue! Get a grip on what Greek Life is instead of your little mind set.

Yes, You are Amazing!

[shinerbock]

Delt, no its not. Thats not how society works at all. Usually, you do drugs, you get hurt, its your fault. You get arrested, you're liable for the consequences. Theres no need for some pseudo watchdog group overseeing your actions. If nationals wants to kick the kid out, fine, do it. Don't punish the chapter because some people use drugs. How are fraternities supposed to help guys grow into men when HQ's hover over them? If you don't wanna do drugs, don't. If you do, do, and see what happens. If you wanna be hazed, go for it. If you don't, hit the road. Our entire male greek system is gonna be filled with whiny bitches if this keeps up.

[jon1856]

I saw this over the weekend, while surfing, and hoped that it would not get picked up.

Speaking for myself, and perhaps Brother Mac', thank you for your kind thought and words.

My thoughts are also with the Chapter and his family and friends.
http://www.wfaa.com/sharedcontent/dw....52ac3362.html

I have a thought for a new thread that I will start when I have a few free monuments. Will be some sort of good news/good deed thread of some sort. Keep an eye open for it.

[DeltAlum]

Gentlemen,

If you run a liquor store and keep selling to minors -- you lose your license. If you run a bar and sell to minors, you lose your license. If you allow illegal drugs to be used in your home, you could go to jail.

In this case, an underaged young man allegedly used drugs and drank alcohol in the chapter house.

Those are both not only against the rules, they're against the law as well.

Saying that it's done all the time doesn't change either of those facts.

If someone breaks the law and you aid in that, you can be held responsible as well.

If you are responsible (personally or as a chapter), you can either be charged for breaking the law or be sued or lose your charter as a chapter.

Sorry. That is the way society works.

[DeltAlum]

Originally Posted by macallan25

They won't close SAE at SMU.......too powerful...........besides, it was a completely isolated incodent.

Ohio State was one of our larger and older chapters with some very influential alumni.

That didn't make any difference.

And it shouldn't.

It was due to its history and alumni support -- including a member of our Arch Chapter (board of directors) -- that allowed it to recolonize so quickly, though.

You're right, we don't know the whole story, but if this kind of behavior is a norm at the chapter, and it isn't closed, then SAE isn't as good of an organization as I think it is.

[shinerbock]

Or we could let people take responsibilities for their actions. Why not close SMU down as well? They obviously allow these activities to go on. If the chapter supplied the blow, maybe that would be a rational decision. Also, if a chapter has a policy against drugs and decides to kick a member out, then thats fine also. Nationals coming in and closing down shop because some people use drugs and an accident happened is stupid. Yeah yeah, insurance, liability. I just hate that fraternities are viewed as some overseeing parent responsible for its members. Sure, our bonds and activities go beyond that of a club, but thats how it should be viewed. If I die of drinking, should the college republicans be held responsible? These are grown men. Well, they would be if people would stop treating them like children who need to be coddled.

[DeltAlum]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

These are grown men.

Maybe. But maybe not grown enough to follow the rules and obey the law.

The chapter knows what is expected of it.

IF it was aware of what was going on, it may deserve to be closed.

Sorry, but that's the way society works.

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by DeltAlum

Ohio State was one of our larger and older chapters with some very influential alumni.

That didn't make any difference.

And it shouldn't.

It was due to its history and alumni support -- including a member of our Arch Chapter (board of directors) -- that allowed it to recolonize so quickly, though.

You're right, we don't know the whole story, but if this kind of behavior is a norm at the chapter, and it isn't closed, then SAE isn't as good of an organization as I think it is.

Delt, if you don't think drugs and alcohol are a part of a significant number of chapters then you need to wake up and smell the coffee. They are everywhere. I don't think it is fair to make your mind up about an organization because a chapter has guys that do drugs.

In this case......its SMU. That school is insanely wealthy.......and so are its fraternity members. Lots of partying and lots of drugs. This is known by everyone.