Universities Under Investigation Re: Handling Sexual Assault

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by honorgal

I have added plenty of facts, including the DOJ statistics, to back up my arguments.

Yes, you have cited some things like the USDOJ statistics, though I'm not sure I'd go so far as "plenty." I'm just saying that the facts you've posted are getting lost in the overall tone, to the point where it's not completely clear what your argument is, other than that the "hysteria crowd" has run amok.

[DrPhil]

Coincidentally, I had a mimosa brunch with a friend and we always have good discussions. He initiated a good conversation about his "girlfriend" moving to a different state and pressuring him to get married. He said so many problems are a result of women and men being so darn hormonally and socially different. He was talking about relationships, in general, and said women and men express anger and hurt differently. He was oversimplifying the topic and doing the "men are from Mars, women are from Venus" argument. I asked him how larger gender disparities and other larger issues will be addressed if people keep insisting this all boils down to "differences". *mimosa sip*

I'm not sure of honorgal's argument but there are people who believe men are unfairly targeted and blamed for things that are merely a result of biological and gender differences.

[honorgal]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

Yes, you have cited some things like the USDOJ statistics, though I'm not sure I'd go so far as "plenty." I'm just saying that the facts you've posted are getting lost in the overall tone, to the point where it's not completely clear what your argument is, other than that the "hysteria crowd" has run amok.

There are numerous layers of this subject that are of interest to me, but my main points are that the crisis meme is:

1. Manufactured
2. Dangerous - as a response to the manufactured crisis, colleges and universities are throwing due process out the window
3. Disingenuous - if 1 in 5 (or 4) was anywhere close to an accurate statistic, common sense would dictate a primary and robust emphasis on prevention. Instead, the activists pushing the crisis meme seem more interested in the "process" of victim support and perp discipline.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by honorgal

There are numerous layers of this subject that are of interest to me, but my main points are that the crisis meme is:

1. Manufactured
2. Dangerous - as a response to the manufactured crisis, colleges and universities are throwing due process out the window
3. Disingenuous - if 1 in 5 (or 4) was anywhere close to an accurate statistic, common sense would dictate a primary and robust emphasis on prevention. Instead, the activists pushing the crisis meme seem more interested in the "process" of victim support and perp discipline.

Thanks. I share your concern on whether universities are really able to effectively deal with this problem, however big it is or isn't, through the disciplinary process, and whether that process is fair to all concerned.

Originally Posted by honorgal

Is anyone on this thread, or in the media arguing that there are huge biological and gender differences that result in women being weak and submissive and men being strong and dominant as a factor in the manufactured campus rape "crisis"? I'm not seeing it.

That's why your post on "what you call gender differences I call biology" was questioned. It seemed to some of us, at least, that you were arguing that. Sorry if that was an erroneous inference, but that's what I was getting from your posts.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

That's why your post on "what you call gender differences I call biology" was questioned. It seemed to some of us, at least, that you were arguing that. Sorry if that was an erroneous inference, but that's what I was getting from your posts.

Honorgal refused or was unable to clarify and just went on and on:

Originally Posted by honorgal

Men and women are having lots of boozy sex with each other on college campuses. This should be a good thing in the eyes of the campus feminists. And the men certainly aren't complaining. But some of the women are. Not only are they complaining, they are insisting that men have to change, become more chivalrous, treat women with the respect they deserve. It's almost comical. Almost. But keep telling us that we're pretty much the same.

Therefore I conclude that is what honorgal meant and is backpedaling because my posts highlight the ridiculousness of the assertion.

Other than that, I already said women and men should be free to do whatever they please and do it safely without fear of being accused of victimizing someone if instead it was miscommunication, both people were drunk, etc. That doesn't mean the MAJORITY of rape and sexual assault allegations are false.