Universities Under Investigation Re: Handling Sexual Assault

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by honorgal

Do you do this a lot, Dr. Phil? I'm asking because if the answer is yes. I'd rather not waste my time on a message board that would allow it. It's rude and extremely childish.

People who post things like this:

Originally Posted by honorgal

Oh goody, you passed Gender Studies 101 with flying colors.

have ceded the high ground and are not in a particularly good position for calling others out on rude and childish behavior.

You've raised some valid points, some of which many posters—including Dr. Phil (who is a she, btw)—appear to agree with. Unfortunately, your valid points are getting lost in the overly-combative, ax-grinding tone of your posts.

[honorgal]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

People who post things like this:have ceded the high ground and are not in a particularly good position for calling others out on rude and childish behavior.

You've raised some valid points, some of which many posters—including Dr. Phil (who is a she, btw)—appear to agree with. Unfortunately, your valid points are getting lost in the overly-combative, ax-grinding tone of your posts.

Oh please. I've gone back and read the thread. If you did the same you'd see that I was simply responding to Dr. Phil's combativeness.

As for ax grinding, i do have strong opinions on this particular subject, from several different angles. Is that not encouraged?

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by honorgal

Oh please. I've gone back and read the thread. If you did the same you'd see that I was simply responding to Dr. Phil's combativeness.

I too have gone back and read the thread, and the idea that you were simply responding to her combativeness is bull. She said she agreed with much of what you said, but then disagreed with one specific statement you made—that what she called gender inequalities you call biology. You responded:

Originally Posted by honorgal

The irony and hypocrisy of this faux rape crisis are entirely lost on you, I see. It would almost be funny if it didn't involve the actual well being of real young people.

She then asked questions to see if you understood why she disagreed with you, and it was you who got combative.

As for ax grinding, i do have strong opinions on this particular subject, from several different angles. Is that not encouraged?

Of course strong opinions are encouraged. Defending your strong opinions primarily with ad hominem arguments and dismissiveness, however, is not. Back up your strong opinions with good, objective arguments, not simply by writing off those who disagree with you, in whole or only in part, as "the hysteria crowd" or by telling them irony is lost on them. That's not the way to get anyone to take your arguments seriously.

[honorgal]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

I too have gone back and read the thread, and the idea that you were simply responding to her combativeness is bull. She said she agreed with much of what you said, but then disagreed with one specific statement you made—that what she called gender inequalities you call biology. You responded: She then asked questions to see if you understood why she disagreed with you, and it was you who got combative.

Of course strong opinions are encouraged. Defending your strong opinions primarily with ad hominem arguments and dismissiveness, however, is not. Back up your strong opinions with good, objective arguments, not simply by writing off those who disagree with you, in whole or only in part, as "the hysteria crowd" or by telling them irony is lost on them. That's not the way to get anyone to take your arguments seriously.

I have added plenty of facts, including the DOJ statistics, to back up my arguments. Again, I felt like I was simply matching my tone to hers. Until we got to the part where she fake quoted me. I welcome the give and take of argument and exchange of ideas but that is a huge red flag to me, either about her or about a community that allows (encourages?) it. I'm obviously new to posting here, so that's why I am trying to get a sense if it's just a random thing, or it happens a lot. Again, because I wouldn't want to waste my time. That's not a flounce. I don't know y'all, you don't know me. No one here will care if I ever post again, nor should they.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by honorgal

I have added plenty of facts, including the DOJ statistics, to back up my arguments.

Yes, you have cited some things like the USDOJ statistics, though I'm not sure I'd go so far as "plenty." I'm just saying that the facts you've posted are getting lost in the overall tone, to the point where it's not completely clear what your argument is, other than that the "hysteria crowd" has run amok.

[DrPhil]

Coincidentally, I had a mimosa brunch with a friend and we always have good discussions. He initiated a good conversation about his "girlfriend" moving to a different state and pressuring him to get married. He said so many problems are a result of women and men being so darn hormonally and socially different. He was talking about relationships, in general, and said women and men express anger and hurt differently. He was oversimplifying the topic and doing the "men are from Mars, women are from Venus" argument. I asked him how larger gender disparities and other larger issues will be addressed if people keep insisting this all boils down to "differences". *mimosa sip*

I'm not sure of honorgal's argument but there are people who believe men are unfairly targeted and blamed for things that are merely a result of biological and gender differences.

[honorgal]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

Yes, you have cited some things like the USDOJ statistics, though I'm not sure I'd go so far as "plenty." I'm just saying that the facts you've posted are getting lost in the overall tone, to the point where it's not completely clear what your argument is, other than that the "hysteria crowd" has run amok.

There are numerous layers of this subject that are of interest to me, but my main points are that the crisis meme is:

1. Manufactured
2. Dangerous - as a response to the manufactured crisis, colleges and universities are throwing due process out the window
3. Disingenuous - if 1 in 5 (or 4) was anywhere close to an accurate statistic, common sense would dictate a primary and robust emphasis on prevention. Instead, the activists pushing the crisis meme seem more interested in the "process" of victim support and perp discipline.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by honorgal

There are numerous layers of this subject that are of interest to me, but my main points are that the crisis meme is:

1. Manufactured
2. Dangerous - as a response to the manufactured crisis, colleges and universities are throwing due process out the window
3. Disingenuous - if 1 in 5 (or 4) was anywhere close to an accurate statistic, common sense would dictate a primary and robust emphasis on prevention. Instead, the activists pushing the crisis meme seem more interested in the "process" of victim support and perp discipline.

Thanks. I share your concern on whether universities are really able to effectively deal with this problem, however big it is or isn't, through the disciplinary process, and whether that process is fair to all concerned.

Originally Posted by honorgal

Is anyone on this thread, or in the media arguing that there are huge biological and gender differences that result in women being weak and submissive and men being strong and dominant as a factor in the manufactured campus rape "crisis"? I'm not seeing it.

That's why your post on "what you call gender differences I call biology" was questioned. It seemed to some of us, at least, that you were arguing that. Sorry if that was an erroneous inference, but that's what I was getting from your posts.