The Seinfeld Dude....

[shinerbock]

On a side note, in response to the above post...I'm not sure what logic you're using in deciding that white people hating black people is racism but black people hating whites isnt...however, if your idea has merit, how would that affect something like hate crime legislation? They're usually racially/sexual orientation motivated, so would you support hate crime status for crimes by blacks against whites, if there was indication that the victim being white factored into the decision to commit the crime? Just curious.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

On a side note, in response to the above post...I'm not sure what logic you're using in deciding that white people hating black people is racism but black people hating whites isnt...

I don't consider white people hating black people to automatically be racism. It is prejudice. The difference, that can make hatred turn into discrimination and/or racism, is that white people hating black people tends to translate into action whereas blacks who hate whites tends to not to translate into action. How many blacks can have stable, good jobs and accumulate wealth through separatism and without the input of a white person who is not a subordinate? However, many whites have always had stable, good jobs and accumulated wealth through separatism (opportunity hoarding) and without the input of blacks who were not subordinates. This is the opportunity and power differential.

Action does not include someone getting mad and whooping someone's ass one day. Action means systemic exclusion and differential treatment (and even systemic violence similar to the lynching era).

Originally Posted by shinerbock

however, if your idea has merit, how would that affect something like hate crime legislation? They're usually racially/sexual orientation motivated, so would you support hate crime status for crimes by blacks against whites, if there was indication that the victim being white factored into the decision to commit the crime? Just curious.

I would. But "racism" is not a requirement for hate crimes or the legislation. You have to prove the person was targeting a specific group, usually due to prejudice and fear, not that the person was "racist."

[southernelle25]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

I don't consider white people hating black people to automatically be racism. It is prejudice. The difference, that can make hatred turn into discrimination and/or racism, is that white people hating black people tends to translate into action whereas blacks who hate whites tends to not to translate into action. How many blacks can have stable, good jobs and accumulate wealth through separatism and without the input of a white person who is not a subordinate? However, many whites have always had stable, good jobs and accumulated wealth through separatism (opportunity hoarding) and without the input of blacks who were not subordinates. This is the opportunity and power differential.

But isn't it true that the reason black hatred tends to not translate into action is because of the actions (or inaction) of blacks themselves. Blacks have as much opportunity - if not more, as other minority groups in America to thrive on their own internal community investments. They choose not to. Are these blacks not racist, then, just because they elect not to utilize the power they in fact have?

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by southernelle25

But isn't it true that the reason black hatred tends to not translate into action is because of the actions (or inaction) of blacks themselves.

No one is discussing why the power differentials are the way they are. And you don't just get power at a societal level and tear down the status quo through positive self-thought and a go-get-em attitude.

But if you must know, NO, the disproportionate condition of blacks in this country is not solely attributable to the actions (or inaction) of blacks themselves. And, NO, blacks do not have the same, if not more, opportunities as other racial and ethnic minorities in this country. No other racial and ethnic minority group in this country has the history that blacks have. You can not look at the present and future without examining the remnants of the past. A past that isn't as distant as people have been told to believe.

But I would like for you to use this retort whenever someone discusses gender inequality and the gender status quo that keeps job ceilings, sex segregation, and inequality in earnings. If women would learn to do better and realize their power, they would have nothing to complain about. Who cares if women's labor is devalued and this is a male dominated society? Cry babies.

[DSTKellie]

Thank you DSTChaos and AKA_Monet we are >>>here<<<.

DSTCHAOS you said exactly what I was trying to say and I couldn't agree more!!

[southernelle25]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

No one is discussing why the power differentials are the way they are.

My question doesn't go to why the power differentials are the way they are (or wasn't meant to), but to whether untapped power has a part in this discussion. The significance of power must be great and untapped power insignificant, if people can be considered capable of racism while in power and not capable of racism when they lose it or fail to realize it...

Earlier, you wrote that: "You can not have racism at any level without an ability to reinforce power differentials, opportunity to be discriminatory, and the incentive/gain from being discriminatory." However, I believe blacks do have that ability to shift power differentials, as well as the opportunity to be discriminatory, and an incentive/gain from being discriminatory (e.g. investing into their own communities the millions upon millions of dollars each year they invest outside those communities, by shopping at Bruh's down the street instead of at Tarjay). What effect does this potential have, if any, on whether a people can be considered capable of racism? None, apparently. That is what I wanted to know.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by southernelle25

My question doesn't go to why the power differentials are the way they are (or wasn't meant to)

You didn't mean to but you did and you're doing something I spoke against a few posts ago, failing to see the general and apply it to the specific. Your question has essentially been answered a few times in this thread already. But here goes the last time:

Until the race, class, and gender status quo is completly eliminated on a societal level, which is a huge feat, any shifts in the status quo are temporary and small scale. That goes for untapped power or untapped beer cans.

[southernelle25]

Now, about those unicorns ...