The Seinfeld Dude....

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

How many black men who run food kiosks would think to not serve a white man who makes money and can pay for a service? Not many and not any who want to actually have a successful business where successful white men don't refuse to patron them. Discussing outliers never makes for good dialogue because it is a social fact that black owned businesses who want more mainstream success, in general, do not thrive when they attempt to exclude white consumers. However, white owned businesses who want mainstream success, in general, can thrive even if they manage to exclude black consumers either intentionally or "unintentionally."

But I'm in a power struggle with the post office over getting my package delivered today. Doesn't sound too exciting or noteworthy, does it? Nope.



If you're still asking about the black person as singular rather than general then read my first post on this page.

It isn't dodging the question. It forced you to pose the question differently because "race" is a narrow focus if you are speaking internationally.

If "whites" are power minorities in a society (which has nothing to do with being a Donald Trump, since racism was perpetuated by the white working class through the split labor market for the past 50 or so years) then they can not be racist against SE Asians--and any racism would be small scale and not that long lasting because it doesn't follow the SE Asians throughout many aspects of the society (and therefore isn't worth discussing, in my opinion). But the whites can be prejudice or discriminatory at whatever level they are able to.

I expect for people to be able to see the general and apply it to the specific. If a general point has been made, you should be able to see the point about power differentials. There's no need for anecdotes or probing questions regarding these specific instances that may be more outliers than anything else.

If you think of racism as "individual racism" only (as many people do) then we'll obviously disagree so no need to discuss further.

I bring up the outlier not because of its likeliness but because it is a contradiction. You're taking my points and trying to deny their applicability based on business for example. Said black man's business may fail, but if he acted in such because of the color of the white man's skin, then he is racist. It doesn't matter whether that is a financially wise decision.

I argue that racism is not ONLY institutional/societal but also individual and thus cannot be denied simply because the racist is in the minority. I am not denying the racism present in society/government/etc. though I probably disagree with you on some aspects of it.

You seem to only address racism on the societal level - such as w/in my example. If said man is racist, he is racist no matter who he is. Yes, it is small scale but these tiny relationships are what form society.

Perhaps this is simply a psychology vs. sociology point of view.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

I bring up the outlier not because of its likeliness but because it is a contradiction.

Not a contradiction if you read my first post on this page.

And if it is relatively uncommon, what's the point? Are we going to debate whether unicorns are racist against leprechauns next? Those bastards.

The difference is not really individual vs. societal. It's not really psychological vs. sociological because psychologists tend to be stuck in the attitude stage and figuring out the why or intent versus examining the outcome regardless of why and intent. So that's not the crux of this debate.

The difference is really power. Since people want to discuss individual-level, if you fail to acknowledge power differentials in "individual racism" then you are really talking about prejudice (attitude) and perhaps even discrimination (behavior) if there is opportunity to discriminate. Even discriminate requires contextual power because you have to have the ability to withhold something from someone. You can have prejudice without discrimination and vice versa. But you can not have racism at any level without an ability to reinforce power differentials, opportunity to be discriminatory, and the incentive/gain from being discriminatory.

[DSTKellie]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

Not a contradiction if you read my first post on this page.

And if it is relatively uncommon, what's the point? Are we going to debate whether unicorns are racist against leprechauns next? Those bastards.

Soror, I love you for this quote alone!

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

Perhaps this is simply a psychology vs. sociology point of view.

Lesson 1) Racism 101: It is really never that simply. Willie Lynch papers suggest that... I think Plessy vs. Fergeson with the US Supreme Court also discuss that... Possibly the Fugitive Slave Act.

Lesson 2) If you neglect KNOWING your past, you will be doomed to repeat it in the future. We have all just experienced another act that is now being "contrived" as racist in NYC (The shot and killed groom). I just had a young AfAm man tell me how shocked he is. And now, I am barely beginning to understand why, because I am not shocked--more like surprised by folks response to the incident as "what did you expect"? That is the nature of white supremacy and that is what hate does. Once we understand it, dissect it, study it, examine it, research it, and possibly find a treatment option for it, then we can begin to more beyond the humanity of people of color to the spiritual realm...

All I know is that it takes an enlightened person...