The Seinfeld Dude....

[DSTKellie]

Originally Posted by 06pilot

So, if 3/4 of white people are racists, what percentage of black people are racists?

Well personally I dont think black people are racist. We don't benefit from racism. Because racism is a system that we cannot control. Are there black people that hate white people??? Of course! But this does not qualify as racism to me. (another topic for another day)

BTW: People apologize because its the right thing to do not because they really want to change.

Anyway, I seek no reason to support him or justify his outrageous rants. I've enjoyed a Seinfield episode now and then but I am content if I never see the show or him again.

Good point AKAMonet!

[shinerbock]

On a side note, in response to the above post...I'm not sure what logic you're using in deciding that white people hating black people is racism but black people hating whites isnt...however, if your idea has merit, how would that affect something like hate crime legislation? They're usually racially/sexual orientation motivated, so would you support hate crime status for crimes by blacks against whites, if there was indication that the victim being white factored into the decision to commit the crime? Just curious.

[Rudey]

Originally Posted by LXA SE285

Michael Richards isn't Jewish.

http://www.jewishjournal.com/home/preview.php?=id=16838

Thanks from posting that. Aside from the fact that he's not Jewish he made some sort of bizarre remark about Jews killing Jesus. But what makes people even care if he's Jewish? It matters not one bit. What makes people think he's Jewish? The big nose and curly hair? Bias. Hate. Ignorance. Call it what you want, but those that live in glass houses shouldn't cast stones.

Still waiting on someone to address the fact that someone was racist and called him a Cracker and a White Boy.

-Rudey
--Crow must taste great.

[_Opi_]

Originally Posted by DSTKellie

Well personally I dont think black people are racist.

I beg to differ. I've seen black people who were racist. Asians, hispanics, etc.

I'm afraid hate comes in all colours.

[DSTKellie]

Please let me explain. I never said that Black people were not hateful and that they d0 not hate whites. Please re-read what i posted.

The definition of racism a system that believes that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others. Racist people are those who use the system, forms of prejudice and discrimination to keep ones race as superior and another race as inferior. Black people do not benefit from racism. If a black owner decided not to serve white people, guess what? White people would still be superior. White people perpetuate stereotypes, names and other tactics to remain the superior race. As in Michael Richards performance he showed his true opinion about blacks and revealed his racism when he made the comment about 50 yrs ago, pitchfork in ass blah blah whatever. That comment alone showed his true racism not so much of his use of the N-word. Again yes black people can be hateful but technically blacks are not racist because we do not control the system. If a black person hates a white person it isn't because the black person thinks the white person is inferior because of their physical characteristics. Usually its because of something the white person has done. Whites hated blacks merely based on physical characteristics alone. They felt that they were somewhat better that them because they did not possess the physical qualities of African Americans. Racism can be covert and overt. I see all the time. And sometimes your NICEST white people can still be racist. White people with "black" friends can still be racist. It's a belief system and most white people feel that they are better than other races because they are white.

My feelings are the same with sexism I don't believe that women can be sexist.

[Drolefille]

That power exists on that personal level, not just a societal one.
Wouldn't you say that a black person who refuses to serve a white person is the one in power at that particular point in time?? If it's about power and power alone, then it isn't just about society, it's about the interpersonal relationships. If a black teacher harasses his white students, then he, in the position of power, is racist. Using a racial slur puts you in power over the other person (no matter the color) by knocking them down a level.

[06pilot]

Originally Posted by DSTKellie

Well personally I dont think black people are racist. We don't benefit from racism. Because racism is a system that we cannot control. Are there black people that hate white people??? Of course! But this does not qualify as racism to me. (another topic for another day)

BTW: People apologize because its the right thing to do not because they really want to change.

Anyway, I seek no reason to support him or justify his outrageous rants. I've enjoyed a Seinfield episode now and then but I am content if I never see the show or him again.

Good point AKAMonet!

Maybe thats the reason YOU apologize. You need to deal with that within yourself. So, you have to benefit in some way to be a Racist? I thought the defintion f racist was to hate another person because of their race. I dont remember any definition talking about benefiting. Hate is Hate and it is wrong in any color.I dont support any hatered no matter what color the person is. I try to lve my life the way I want to be treated and I lok at every indivisual as an indivisual not as a race. I could write a whole thing about that but as you said thats another conversation all together. But I would think college educated people would think more logically and not emotionally.

[DSTKellie]

Originally Posted by 06pilot

Maybe thats the reason YOU apologize. You need to deal with that within yourself. So, you have to benefit in some way to be a Racist? I thought the defintion f racist was to hate another person because of their race. I dont remember any definition talking about benefiting. Hate is Hate and it is wrong in any color.I dont support any hatered no matter what color the person is. I try to lve my life the way I want to be treated and I lok at every indivisual as an indivisual not as a race. I could write a whole thing about that but as you said thats another conversation all together. But I would think college educated people would think more logically and not emotionally.

You just missed the entire point. Anyway I never justified that hating someone was okay. I never said that hating was ok regardless of who is doing the hate. I simply defined racism and explained why I don't think Black people are racist. Doesnt mean that black people dont hate, doesnt mean that black people are perfect. you totally missed the point. Anyway I also dont think Michael Richards was sincrere with his apology that is just my opinion.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by DSTKellie

You just missed the entire point. Anyway I never justified that hating someone was okay. I never said that hating was ok regardless of who is doing the hate. I simply defined racism and explained why I don't think Black people are racist. Doesnt mean that black people dont hate, doesnt mean that black people are perfect. you totally missed the point. Anyway I also dont think Michael Richards was sincrere with his apology that is just my opinion.

While that may be your definition of racism, it is not the one that society, or the dictionary, operates under.

If I say that the word hand does not mean this digited manipulator at the end of my arm, but instead means a ball made up of rubber bands, well that's all well and good for myself, but no one else is going to operate under that same definition (or very few people)

[DSTKellie]

That definition was taken from a dictionary. And many Sociologist and Professors would agree with me. I have many discussions like this in college and we all have come to this conclusion.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by DSTKellie

That definition was taken from a dictionary. And many Sociologist and Professors would agree with me. I have many discussions like this in college and we all have come to this conclusion.

Source for that dictionary?

And while your professors may agree, I have an equal amount of anecdotal evidence (discussions, etc) that would counteract that.

[SummerChild]

06pilot, to answer your question, he has apologized and no, I do not think that it is sincere. I think that he is trying to do *damage control.* Yes, I am G-D fearing and yes I am still willing to recognize what I consider to be the truth and the reality of a situation. If you want to forgive him then *you* forgive him. I don't see how forgiving him will take back the hurt of him conjuring up and using as a *weapon* the mutiliation of black men by lynch mobs. If you think that it will smooth everything over for you to forgive him, then *you* forgive him.

Yes there were people in the audience heckling him. Comedians heckle audience members sometimes and sometimes audience members heckle comedians. Anyone who has ever been to a comedy show knows that it goes both ways and is a frequent occurrence. If you think that that gives him the right to basically tell the hecklers that 50 years ago, he would have been part of a lynch mob, call them a degrading term several times, tell them "that's what happens when you interrupt the white man, n*" and jokingly state that "the police are going to arrest [me] for calling a black man a n*" then *you* look the other way.

However, I do think that it is offensive to post a message basically telling us to calm down and it's not that important. It trivializes the weapon that he obviously felt obliged to wield in that comedy club. If it's not important to you then stop commenting in this thread and start a thread about the "more important things going on in life" that you mention below. People will comment in that thread too. Alas, it is possible to discuss more than one issue at once.

ETA: 06pilot, how about the man who was getting married the next day and was attending his bachelor party with his two friends - all three were gunned down by the police over the weekend in NY? He was leaving the club with his friends. Several police men in plain clothes gunned them down in their car. 31 bullets in the guy who was scheduled to get married within hours, 17 in a passenger and several in another. The police had been drinking and all police started firing (and emptying round after round in their car) b/c the police *thought* that they might have had a gun. No gun was ever found. Kind of like the Amadou Diallo situation. Is *this* important enough to talk about or should we find another topic?

SC

Originally Posted by 06pilot

SO, I gather if he apologized not many people would think it was sincere. I bet thee are the same people that profess to be God fearing Christians too. Forgiveness apparently had a finite point. Thats not what my Bible says.

These hoodlums in the audience were heckiling him. Now of course it wasnt right for him to say racist statements but ya know, we have much more important things going on in life than to wory about some guy we will neer meet in person

[PhrozenGod01]

Originally Posted by DSTKellie

Please let me explain. I never said that Black people were not hateful and that they d0 not hate whites. Please re-read what i posted.

The definition of racism a system that believes that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others. Racist people are those who use the system, forms of prejudice and discrimination to keep ones race as superior and another race as inferior. Black people do not benefit from racism. If a black owner decided not to serve white people, guess what? White people would still be superior. White people perpetuate stereotypes, names and other tactics to remain the superior race. As in Michael Richards performance he showed his true opinion about blacks and revealed his racism when he made the comment about 50 yrs ago, pitchfork in ass blah blah whatever. That comment alone showed his true racism not so much of his use of the N-word. Again yes black people can be hateful but technically blacks are not racist because we do not control the system. If a black person hates a white person it isn't because the black person thinks the white person is inferior because of their physical characteristics. Usually its because of something the white person has done. Whites hated blacks merely based on physical characteristics alone. They felt that they were somewhat better that them because they did not possess the physical qualities of African Americans. Racism can be covert and overt. I see all the time. And sometimes your NICEST white people can still be racist. White people with "black" friends can still be racist. It's a belief system and most white people feel that they are better than other races because they are white.

My feelings are the same with sexism I don't believe that women can be sexist.

Wow. I really have to disagree with a lot. Although the impact of racist ideologies and actions from white people has more significant results, anyone of any color can be a racist. I know some Black people who are extremely racist. I also know some women who are extremely sexist. Institutional patterns don't let anyone off the hook. The actions are more important. Racism gives mean actions a cold impersonal sting, and turns nice gestures into sugary, patronizing insults. If I make racist comments to people and hurt their feelings, I'm a racist, regardless of how much money they make, or what they do for a living. Even if I don't hurt their feelings, I would have a problem. The same goes with sexism. If a woman tells me that I am inferior because I am a man, then she would be a sexist, regardless of current trends. Even if I brush it off, that woman would probably raise her kids to treat others poorly for those reasons.

I really think that everyone is racist, if not xenophobic to some degree. It's the way we are all socialized. I mean, one only needs to look at the way space aliens are portrayed in movies, television, and books. If martians or something landed, the world would probably unite in destroying them or something, even if they didn't mean any harm. I'm not comparing the real implications of racism with [I]War of the Worlds[I] or anything, but we are all taught to make assumptions and fear people without getting to know them first.

[AKA_Monet]

DSTKellie,

You can explain with all your might about institutionalized racism but most folks on GC prefer to remain ignorant...

I know what racism is and what it is not.

It is about white supremacy... And I will leave it at that... Until folks have fully researchered under intense studies of Dr. Francis Cress Welsing and Dr. Na'im Akbar, then folks do not have any discussions with me...

Otherwise all folks can do is a search throughout the GC forums for the level of thinking of the collective groupthink...

I know what you talking about. And probably DSTChaos knows. And your arguments are undocumented and unsupported lacking logical conclusions. Now, you can decide if you want to pursue your opinions further, however, it is a useless gesture with likes of most GC folks...

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

DSTKellie,

You can explain with all your might about institutionalized racism but most folks on GC prefer to remain ignorant...

I know what racism is and what it is not.

It is about white supremacy... And I will leave it at that... Until folks have fully researchered under intense studies of Dr. Francis Cress Welsing and Dr. Na'im Akbar, then folks do not have any discussions with me...

Otherwise all folks can do is a search throughout the GC forums for the level of thinking of the collective groupthink...

I know what you talking about. And probably DSTChaos knows. And your arguments are undocumented and unsupported lacking logical conclusions. Now, you can decide if you want to pursue your opinions further, however, it is a useless gesture with likes of most GC folks...

Ah, institutionalized racisim.

I can agree that this is a horse of a different color. Were we discussion instituionalized racism, that might have made more sense. Racism at it's core however is bias based on race. NOT bias from the dominent race to the non-dominent. By your/DSTKellie's definition, a white person living in or visiting a predominantly Arab country could not be racist against Arabs. Same applies for an African country or an Asian one.



However, the idea that two sociologists (I assume) are the end all be all of ANY field as broad as racism is silly.

You are right however that her arguments are undocumented.