The Seinfeld Dude....

[06pilot]

Originally Posted by DSTKellie

Well personally I dont think black people are racist. We don't benefit from racism. Because racism is a system that we cannot control. Are there black people that hate white people??? Of course! But this does not qualify as racism to me. (another topic for another day)

BTW: People apologize because its the right thing to do not because they really want to change.

Anyway, I seek no reason to support him or justify his outrageous rants. I've enjoyed a Seinfield episode now and then but I am content if I never see the show or him again.

Good point AKAMonet!

Maybe thats the reason YOU apologize. You need to deal with that within yourself. So, you have to benefit in some way to be a Racist? I thought the defintion f racist was to hate another person because of their race. I dont remember any definition talking about benefiting. Hate is Hate and it is wrong in any color.I dont support any hatered no matter what color the person is. I try to lve my life the way I want to be treated and I lok at every indivisual as an indivisual not as a race. I could write a whole thing about that but as you said thats another conversation all together. But I would think college educated people would think more logically and not emotionally.

[DSTKellie]

Originally Posted by 06pilot

Maybe thats the reason YOU apologize. You need to deal with that within yourself. So, you have to benefit in some way to be a Racist? I thought the defintion f racist was to hate another person because of their race. I dont remember any definition talking about benefiting. Hate is Hate and it is wrong in any color.I dont support any hatered no matter what color the person is. I try to lve my life the way I want to be treated and I lok at every indivisual as an indivisual not as a race. I could write a whole thing about that but as you said thats another conversation all together. But I would think college educated people would think more logically and not emotionally.

You just missed the entire point. Anyway I never justified that hating someone was okay. I never said that hating was ok regardless of who is doing the hate. I simply defined racism and explained why I don't think Black people are racist. Doesnt mean that black people dont hate, doesnt mean that black people are perfect. you totally missed the point. Anyway I also dont think Michael Richards was sincrere with his apology that is just my opinion.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by DSTKellie

You just missed the entire point. Anyway I never justified that hating someone was okay. I never said that hating was ok regardless of who is doing the hate. I simply defined racism and explained why I don't think Black people are racist. Doesnt mean that black people dont hate, doesnt mean that black people are perfect. you totally missed the point. Anyway I also dont think Michael Richards was sincrere with his apology that is just my opinion.

While that may be your definition of racism, it is not the one that society, or the dictionary, operates under.

If I say that the word hand does not mean this digited manipulator at the end of my arm, but instead means a ball made up of rubber bands, well that's all well and good for myself, but no one else is going to operate under that same definition (or very few people)

[DSTKellie]

That definition was taken from a dictionary. And many Sociologist and Professors would agree with me. I have many discussions like this in college and we all have come to this conclusion.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by DSTKellie

That definition was taken from a dictionary. And many Sociologist and Professors would agree with me. I have many discussions like this in college and we all have come to this conclusion.

Source for that dictionary?

And while your professors may agree, I have an equal amount of anecdotal evidence (discussions, etc) that would counteract that.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

While that may be your definition of racism, it is not the one that society, or the dictionary, operates under.

There are two main definitions of racism that have been debated over the last few decades. But there are thousands of social scientists and researchers who agree with the definition that includes power definitions, as well as distinguishes between prejudice, discrimination, and racism.

The dictionary provides things in a simplistic format for the layperson who won't understand these social constructs if presented in detail. This is why there are social science dictionaries, encyclopedias and other sources for people who want to really dig deep to understand and challenge conventional notions.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

There are two main definitions of racism that have been debated over the last few decades. But there are thousands of social scientists and researchers who agree with the definition that includes power definitions, as well as distinguishes between prejudice, discrimination, and racism.

The dictionary provides things in a simplistic format for the layperson who won't understand these social constructs if presented in detail. This is why there are social science dictionaries, encyclopedias and other sources for people who want to really dig deep to understand and challenge conventional notions.

See my example above about power struggles existing in the everyday interpersonal relationships. A black man who refuses to serve a white man is in a position of power over the white man, even if that white man is a CEO and the black man is running a food kiosk. EVEN if racism only exists where power is involved, power struggles are involved in every relationship.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

See my example above about power struggles existing in the everyday interpersonal relationships. A black man who refuses to serve a white man is in a position of power over the white man, even if that white man is a CEO and the black man is running a food kiosk. EVEN if racism only exists where power is involved, power struggles are involved in every relationship.

How many black men who run food kiosks would think to not serve a white man who makes money and can pay for a service? Not many and not any who want to actually have a successful business where successful white men don't refuse to patron them. Discussing outliers never makes for good dialogue because it is a social fact that black owned businesses who want more mainstream success, in general, do not thrive when they attempt to exclude white consumers. However, white owned businesses who want mainstream success, in general, can thrive even if they manage to exclude black consumers either intentionally or "unintentionally."

But I'm in a power struggle with the post office over getting my package delivered today. Doesn't sound too exciting or noteworthy, does it? Nope.

Originally Posted by Drolefille

No, but the dicussion was about whether a non-white person could be racist, thus I was discussing it at the individual level.

And saying that Arabs can "pass" dodges the question. Could a white person living in Pakistan be racist against SE Asians? This is not Donald Trump or Tom Cruise this is Joe Street, white, male, and a minority in Pakistan.

If you're still asking about the black person as singular rather than general then read my first post on this page.

It isn't dodging the question. It forced you to pose the question differently because "race" is a narrow focus if you are speaking internationally.

If "whites" are power minorities in a society (which has nothing to do with being a Donald Trump, since racism was perpetuated by the white working class through the split labor market for the past 50 or so years) then they can not be racist against SE Asians--and any racism would be small scale and not that long lasting because it doesn't follow the SE Asians throughout many aspects of the society (and therefore isn't worth discussing, in my opinion). But the whites can be prejudice or discriminatory at whatever level they are able to.

I expect for people to be able to see the general and apply it to the specific. If a general point has been made, you should be able to see the point about power differentials. There's no need for anecdotes or probing questions regarding these specific instances that may be more outliers than anything else.

If you think of racism as "individual racism" only (as many people do) then we'll obviously disagree so no need to discuss further.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

How many black men who run food kiosks would think to not serve a white man who makes money and can pay for a service? Not many and not any who want to actually have a successful business where successful white men don't refuse to patron them. Discussing outliers never makes for good dialogue because it is a social fact that black owned businesses who want more mainstream success, in general, do not thrive when they attempt to exclude white consumers. However, white owned businesses who want mainstream success, in general, can thrive even if they manage to exclude black consumers either intentionally or "unintentionally."

But I'm in a power struggle with the post office over getting my package delivered today. Doesn't sound too exciting or noteworthy, does it? Nope.



If you're still asking about the black person as singular rather than general then read my first post on this page.

It isn't dodging the question. It forced you to pose the question differently because "race" is a narrow focus if you are speaking internationally.

If "whites" are power minorities in a society (which has nothing to do with being a Donald Trump, since racism was perpetuated by the white working class through the split labor market for the past 50 or so years) then they can not be racist against SE Asians--and any racism would be small scale and not that long lasting because it doesn't follow the SE Asians throughout many aspects of the society (and therefore isn't worth discussing, in my opinion). But the whites can be prejudice or discriminatory at whatever level they are able to.

I expect for people to be able to see the general and apply it to the specific. If a general point has been made, you should be able to see the point about power differentials. There's no need for anecdotes or probing questions regarding these specific instances that may be more outliers than anything else.

If you think of racism as "individual racism" only (as many people do) then we'll obviously disagree so no need to discuss further.

I bring up the outlier not because of its likeliness but because it is a contradiction. You're taking my points and trying to deny their applicability based on business for example. Said black man's business may fail, but if he acted in such because of the color of the white man's skin, then he is racist. It doesn't matter whether that is a financially wise decision.

I argue that racism is not ONLY institutional/societal but also individual and thus cannot be denied simply because the racist is in the minority. I am not denying the racism present in society/government/etc. though I probably disagree with you on some aspects of it.

You seem to only address racism on the societal level - such as w/in my example. If said man is racist, he is racist no matter who he is. Yes, it is small scale but these tiny relationships are what form society.

Perhaps this is simply a psychology vs. sociology point of view.