The Seinfeld Dude....

[06pilot]

Originally Posted by DSTKellie

Michael Richards is racist. Over 3/4 of the white population probably is. I would have been very pissed if I was in the audience and I probably would have started a riot. But other than that he is racist and that pretty much doesnt make or break my day.

Now I think people have gone over board with this lawsuit issue. But then again he's a rich man and it looks like they will probably get some compensation for this incident. So go for it and break him where it hurts the most.

Why did he apologize to Jesse Jacksons and Al Sharpton...were they there??

So, if 3/4 of white people are racists, what percentage of black people are racists?

[06pilot]

SO, I gather if he apologized not many people would think it was sincere. I bet thee are the same people that profess to be God fearing Christians too. Forgiveness apparently had a finite point. Thats not what my Bible says.

These hoodlums in the audience were heckiling him. Now of course it wasnt right for him to say racist statements but ya know, we have much more important things going on in life than to wory about some guy we will neer meet in person

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by 06pilot

SO, I gather if he apologized not many people would think it was sincere. I bet thee are the same people that profess to be God fearing Christians too. Forgiveness apparently had a finite point. Thats not what my Bible says.

These hoodlums in the audience were heckiling him. Now of course it wasnt right for him to say racist statements but ya know, we have much more important things going on in life than to wory about some guy we will neer meet in person

Are you from LA? Have you ever lived there? If you are not from Los Angeles, then you no clue what kinds of racial tensions exist there...

After 2 violent racially based outbursts that turned into riots in 1965 Watts and 1992 South Central LA, do you think that the "act of forgiving" someone who blurts any kind of racial epithets in that area would be safe given the incindiery nature of it? Literally?

[SummerChild]

06pilot, to answer your question, he has apologized and no, I do not think that it is sincere. I think that he is trying to do *damage control.* Yes, I am G-D fearing and yes I am still willing to recognize what I consider to be the truth and the reality of a situation. If you want to forgive him then *you* forgive him. I don't see how forgiving him will take back the hurt of him conjuring up and using as a *weapon* the mutiliation of black men by lynch mobs. If you think that it will smooth everything over for you to forgive him, then *you* forgive him.

Yes there were people in the audience heckling him. Comedians heckle audience members sometimes and sometimes audience members heckle comedians. Anyone who has ever been to a comedy show knows that it goes both ways and is a frequent occurrence. If you think that that gives him the right to basically tell the hecklers that 50 years ago, he would have been part of a lynch mob, call them a degrading term several times, tell them "that's what happens when you interrupt the white man, n*" and jokingly state that "the police are going to arrest [me] for calling a black man a n*" then *you* look the other way.

However, I do think that it is offensive to post a message basically telling us to calm down and it's not that important. It trivializes the weapon that he obviously felt obliged to wield in that comedy club. If it's not important to you then stop commenting in this thread and start a thread about the "more important things going on in life" that you mention below. People will comment in that thread too. Alas, it is possible to discuss more than one issue at once.

ETA: 06pilot, how about the man who was getting married the next day and was attending his bachelor party with his two friends - all three were gunned down by the police over the weekend in NY? He was leaving the club with his friends. Several police men in plain clothes gunned them down in their car. 31 bullets in the guy who was scheduled to get married within hours, 17 in a passenger and several in another. The police had been drinking and all police started firing (and emptying round after round in their car) b/c the police *thought* that they might have had a gun. No gun was ever found. Kind of like the Amadou Diallo situation. Is *this* important enough to talk about or should we find another topic?

SC

Originally Posted by 06pilot

SO, I gather if he apologized not many people would think it was sincere. I bet thee are the same people that profess to be God fearing Christians too. Forgiveness apparently had a finite point. Thats not what my Bible says.

These hoodlums in the audience were heckiling him. Now of course it wasnt right for him to say racist statements but ya know, we have much more important things going on in life than to wory about some guy we will neer meet in person

[DSTKellie]

Originally Posted by 06pilot

So, if 3/4 of white people are racists, what percentage of black people are racists?

Well personally I dont think black people are racist. We don't benefit from racism. Because racism is a system that we cannot control. Are there black people that hate white people??? Of course! But this does not qualify as racism to me. (another topic for another day)

BTW: People apologize because its the right thing to do not because they really want to change.

Anyway, I seek no reason to support him or justify his outrageous rants. I've enjoyed a Seinfield episode now and then but I am content if I never see the show or him again.

Good point AKAMonet!

[shinerbock]

On a side note, in response to the above post...I'm not sure what logic you're using in deciding that white people hating black people is racism but black people hating whites isnt...however, if your idea has merit, how would that affect something like hate crime legislation? They're usually racially/sexual orientation motivated, so would you support hate crime status for crimes by blacks against whites, if there was indication that the victim being white factored into the decision to commit the crime? Just curious.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

On a side note, in response to the above post...I'm not sure what logic you're using in deciding that white people hating black people is racism but black people hating whites isnt...

I don't consider white people hating black people to automatically be racism. It is prejudice. The difference, that can make hatred turn into discrimination and/or racism, is that white people hating black people tends to translate into action whereas blacks who hate whites tends to not to translate into action. How many blacks can have stable, good jobs and accumulate wealth through separatism and without the input of a white person who is not a subordinate? However, many whites have always had stable, good jobs and accumulated wealth through separatism (opportunity hoarding) and without the input of blacks who were not subordinates. This is the opportunity and power differential.

Action does not include someone getting mad and whooping someone's ass one day. Action means systemic exclusion and differential treatment (and even systemic violence similar to the lynching era).

Originally Posted by shinerbock

however, if your idea has merit, how would that affect something like hate crime legislation? They're usually racially/sexual orientation motivated, so would you support hate crime status for crimes by blacks against whites, if there was indication that the victim being white factored into the decision to commit the crime? Just curious.

I would. But "racism" is not a requirement for hate crimes or the legislation. You have to prove the person was targeting a specific group, usually due to prejudice and fear, not that the person was "racist."

[southernelle25]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

I don't consider white people hating black people to automatically be racism. It is prejudice. The difference, that can make hatred turn into discrimination and/or racism, is that white people hating black people tends to translate into action whereas blacks who hate whites tends to not to translate into action. How many blacks can have stable, good jobs and accumulate wealth through separatism and without the input of a white person who is not a subordinate? However, many whites have always had stable, good jobs and accumulated wealth through separatism (opportunity hoarding) and without the input of blacks who were not subordinates. This is the opportunity and power differential.

But isn't it true that the reason black hatred tends to not translate into action is because of the actions (or inaction) of blacks themselves. Blacks have as much opportunity - if not more, as other minority groups in America to thrive on their own internal community investments. They choose not to. Are these blacks not racist, then, just because they elect not to utilize the power they in fact have?

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by southernelle25

But isn't it true that the reason black hatred tends to not translate into action is because of the actions (or inaction) of blacks themselves.

No one is discussing why the power differentials are the way they are. And you don't just get power at a societal level and tear down the status quo through positive self-thought and a go-get-em attitude.

But if you must know, NO, the disproportionate condition of blacks in this country is not solely attributable to the actions (or inaction) of blacks themselves. And, NO, blacks do not have the same, if not more, opportunities as other racial and ethnic minorities in this country. No other racial and ethnic minority group in this country has the history that blacks have. You can not look at the present and future without examining the remnants of the past. A past that isn't as distant as people have been told to believe.

But I would like for you to use this retort whenever someone discusses gender inequality and the gender status quo that keeps job ceilings, sex segregation, and inequality in earnings. If women would learn to do better and realize their power, they would have nothing to complain about. Who cares if women's labor is devalued and this is a male dominated society? Cry babies.

[DSTKellie]

Thank you DSTChaos and AKA_Monet we are >>>here<<<.

DSTCHAOS you said exactly what I was trying to say and I couldn't agree more!!

[southernelle25]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

No one is discussing why the power differentials are the way they are.

My question doesn't go to why the power differentials are the way they are (or wasn't meant to), but to whether untapped power has a part in this discussion. The significance of power must be great and untapped power insignificant, if people can be considered capable of racism while in power and not capable of racism when they lose it or fail to realize it...

Earlier, you wrote that: "You can not have racism at any level without an ability to reinforce power differentials, opportunity to be discriminatory, and the incentive/gain from being discriminatory." However, I believe blacks do have that ability to shift power differentials, as well as the opportunity to be discriminatory, and an incentive/gain from being discriminatory (e.g. investing into their own communities the millions upon millions of dollars each year they invest outside those communities, by shopping at Bruh's down the street instead of at Tarjay). What effect does this potential have, if any, on whether a people can be considered capable of racism? None, apparently. That is what I wanted to know.

[_Opi_]

Originally Posted by DSTKellie

Well personally I dont think black people are racist.

I beg to differ. I've seen black people who were racist. Asians, hispanics, etc.

I'm afraid hate comes in all colours.

[DSTKellie]

Please let me explain. I never said that Black people were not hateful and that they d0 not hate whites. Please re-read what i posted.

The definition of racism a system that believes that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others. Racist people are those who use the system, forms of prejudice and discrimination to keep ones race as superior and another race as inferior. Black people do not benefit from racism. If a black owner decided not to serve white people, guess what? White people would still be superior. White people perpetuate stereotypes, names and other tactics to remain the superior race. As in Michael Richards performance he showed his true opinion about blacks and revealed his racism when he made the comment about 50 yrs ago, pitchfork in ass blah blah whatever. That comment alone showed his true racism not so much of his use of the N-word. Again yes black people can be hateful but technically blacks are not racist because we do not control the system. If a black person hates a white person it isn't because the black person thinks the white person is inferior because of their physical characteristics. Usually its because of something the white person has done. Whites hated blacks merely based on physical characteristics alone. They felt that they were somewhat better that them because they did not possess the physical qualities of African Americans. Racism can be covert and overt. I see all the time. And sometimes your NICEST white people can still be racist. White people with "black" friends can still be racist. It's a belief system and most white people feel that they are better than other races because they are white.

My feelings are the same with sexism I don't believe that women can be sexist.

[Drolefille]

That power exists on that personal level, not just a societal one.
Wouldn't you say that a black person who refuses to serve a white person is the one in power at that particular point in time?? If it's about power and power alone, then it isn't just about society, it's about the interpersonal relationships. If a black teacher harasses his white students, then he, in the position of power, is racist. Using a racial slur puts you in power over the other person (no matter the color) by knocking them down a level.

[PhrozenGod01]

Originally Posted by DSTKellie

Please let me explain. I never said that Black people were not hateful and that they d0 not hate whites. Please re-read what i posted.

The definition of racism a system that believes that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others. Racist people are those who use the system, forms of prejudice and discrimination to keep ones race as superior and another race as inferior. Black people do not benefit from racism. If a black owner decided not to serve white people, guess what? White people would still be superior. White people perpetuate stereotypes, names and other tactics to remain the superior race. As in Michael Richards performance he showed his true opinion about blacks and revealed his racism when he made the comment about 50 yrs ago, pitchfork in ass blah blah whatever. That comment alone showed his true racism not so much of his use of the N-word. Again yes black people can be hateful but technically blacks are not racist because we do not control the system. If a black person hates a white person it isn't because the black person thinks the white person is inferior because of their physical characteristics. Usually its because of something the white person has done. Whites hated blacks merely based on physical characteristics alone. They felt that they were somewhat better that them because they did not possess the physical qualities of African Americans. Racism can be covert and overt. I see all the time. And sometimes your NICEST white people can still be racist. White people with "black" friends can still be racist. It's a belief system and most white people feel that they are better than other races because they are white.

My feelings are the same with sexism I don't believe that women can be sexist.

Wow. I really have to disagree with a lot. Although the impact of racist ideologies and actions from white people has more significant results, anyone of any color can be a racist. I know some Black people who are extremely racist. I also know some women who are extremely sexist. Institutional patterns don't let anyone off the hook. The actions are more important. Racism gives mean actions a cold impersonal sting, and turns nice gestures into sugary, patronizing insults. If I make racist comments to people and hurt their feelings, I'm a racist, regardless of how much money they make, or what they do for a living. Even if I don't hurt their feelings, I would have a problem. The same goes with sexism. If a woman tells me that I am inferior because I am a man, then she would be a sexist, regardless of current trends. Even if I brush it off, that woman would probably raise her kids to treat others poorly for those reasons.

I really think that everyone is racist, if not xenophobic to some degree. It's the way we are all socialized. I mean, one only needs to look at the way space aliens are portrayed in movies, television, and books. If martians or something landed, the world would probably unite in destroying them or something, even if they didn't mean any harm. I'm not comparing the real implications of racism with [I]War of the Worlds[I] or anything, but we are all taught to make assumptions and fear people without getting to know them first.