Dilema

schiller75 · #1 01-29-2007, 09:58 AM

I would like to hear some of your advice on this particular subject. My fraternity is the newest on our campus and I feel that even though we have been installed and are fully accepted we still need to fight to be accepted by the other greek organizations. I feel that we are at a particularly vital crossroads right now and the decisions we make will have a lasting impact on the longevity and success of our fraterinty.
First off I have to say that I love all my brothers equally and will fight to defend each and everyone to the end. My dilema is that we have a few of brothers who are openly gay (I am fine with that), they are great guys and contribute greatly to the fraternity and to the school. The problem is that many of their other homosexual friends are seeing the fact that our fraternity has gay members and see our fraternity as a place where they can belong. Again I have no problem with some of our brothers being gay, but I am concerned with the possible effects that accepting any new members who are openly gay may pose on our future. I do have a problem with some flamboyant behavior that has existed and may result from an increasing population of homosexual brothers. I so do not want to see my fraternity turned into a gay dating organization or losing good members because of this issue. I am concerned with our reputation with the other greeks as well as what it will do to potentials that may be swayed to join another fraternity solely on this fact. I want my fraternity to continue to grow and become a greek organization that can build young men based on the principles of our founders.
How can I go about expressing my beliefs to my brothers without upsetting the balance and sense of community that we have built. I have spoken with several of our straight brothers privately and they have expressed the same thoughts that I have. We dont want to hurt anyones feelings, but we do want to do what is right for the fraternity.

adpiucf · #2 01-29-2007, 10:32 AM

Address it with your chapter president and have the exec board deal with these concerns. As a new member, your place is to follow the chain of command and allow the chapter leadership to open these types of dialogues with the chapters. You may also want to consider running for an office in the spring. I don't think you sound homophobic; you sound like you are concerned about the reputation of your chapter. No organization wants to be singled out as "the jocks fraternity," "the geeks," or "the gay fraternity." You want to have a mix of many things.

ETA: I re-read and saw that you were a recently installed chapter. The advice remains the same-- address this with your president or VP of membership, and have them discuss it with the chapter.

LaneSig · #3 01-29-2007, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adpiucf

Address it with your chapter president and have the exec board deal with these concerns. As a new member, your place is to follow the chain of command and allow the chapter leadership to open these types of dialogues with the chapters. You may also want to consider running for an office in the spring. I don't think you sound homophobic; you sound like you are concerned about the reputation of your chapter. No organization wants to be singled out as "the jocks fraternity," "the geeks," or "the gay fraternity." You want to have a mix of many things.

ETA: I re-read and saw that you were a recently installed chapter. The advice remains the same-- address this with your president or VP of membership, and have them discuss it with the chapter.

adpiucf is giving good advice. You can also speak to your chapter advisors and get their input.

RU OX Alum · #4 01-29-2007, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaneSig

adpiucf is giving good advice. You can also speak to your chapter advisors and get their input.

Don't talk to your chapter advisors, they won't help you at all, with anything. Ever. Sorry, but as a new chapter, they think you will probably fail within the first couple of years. Sad but true.

Make a rule: no dating brothers. That is the same as no dating the dream girl, which is probably a good idea, having someone's girlfriend as dreamgirl causes nothing but drama. Trust me.

That being said, you won't gain the respect of other chapters untill you start winning stuff. Intramurals, President cup, etc.

Also, unforetunetly, male adolencese doesn't end until about 25, so that means that you will probably have to fight another fraternity, if your campus is like mine was.

Actually, if you go through your college expericence without another group wanting to fight you because they are jealous I will be surprised.

Also, make sure that everyone gets in because of HIMSELF not his sexual orientation, etc.

amanda6035 · #5 01-29-2007, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RU OX Alum

Don't talk to your chapter advisors, they won't help you at all, with anything. Ever. Sorry, but as a new chapter, they think you will probably fail within the first couple of years. Sad but true.

That's the most ignorant piece of BS I've ever heard. New chapters struggle, yes, but give the advisors a little more credit than that.

OP - listen to adpiucf. She's hit the nail on the head.

AlphaFrog · #6 01-29-2007, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RU OX Alum

Make a rule: no dating brothers. That is the same as no dating the dream girl, which is probably a good idea, having someone's girlfriend as dreamgirl causes nothing but drama. Trust me.

This would be my suggestion. The problem is, though, it's hard to enforce.

LPIDelta · #7 01-29-2007, 11:37 AM

This is where setting recruitment standards for your chapter would come into play. If you establish standards like a certain GPA or previous involvement in community service or involvement in another campus org as a standard that all potential new members must meet, regardless of personal background, then quality will become the reputation of chapter, not the personal attributes of a few of your members.

Does your fraternity have a discrimination clause re: sexual orientation?

ETA: Also, if you want other groups to accept you while developing a positive image, you may want to make sure you mix with all the groups, join the groups with their philanthropy projects, and get involved with planning all Greek events.

LaneSig · #8 01-29-2007, 12:14 PM

schiller75-

I agree with the "No dating within the chapter" policy. I don't agree with the "Don't talk with the advisors" or "They expect you to fail". You are a new chapter, the advisors are there to help you. If they expected you to fail, they never would have started the colony/chapter in the first place. Advisors are not just "old fogeys" who don't know what it is like to be in college. They may not have had to deal with this issue as undergrads themselves, but they can help with setting standards for membership.

shinerbock · #9 01-29-2007, 12:30 PM

I agree with RU. Chapter advisors usually don't help at all. This is a tough spot though.

schiller75 · #10 01-29-2007, 12:56 PM

Thanks everyone, at least I know I am not alone in my concern. I will keep you posted on what happens.

PeppyGPhiB · #11 01-29-2007, 03:08 PM

Whether chapter advisors help probably varies from chapter to chapter. My chapter's advisors were crucial to our success as a new chapter...there's no way we would've known the right way to do things without their help.

Also, what RU said about fighting a fraternity? Never happened on my campus (that I knew of), and sounds more like gang warfare to me. Do you really want to associate yourselves with that kind of behavior either? Winning things is important, yes, but I'd limit it to the stuff that greeks usually brag about...chapter of the year, grades, intramurals, greek week, spring sing/songfest, sorority philanthropies, etc. You want members that are honorable, not thugs.

Tom Earp · #12 01-29-2007, 03:39 PM

I am sure that many Chapters of Many GLOs have had gays in them whether they want to admit it or not!

I am sure Your HQ and Chapters have standards of which have to be followed.

This is not meaning ethniticity, religious, or other regulations about sexual preference.

If a new possible does not fit what is being looked for by your Chapter, then they will not be given a bid and accepted.

Chapter Advisors are there to give guidence, so you may want to have them involved for feed back. It is a tough choice, but it is yours and the chapters.

33girl · #13 01-29-2007, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeppyGPhiB

Also, what RU said about fighting a fraternity? Never happened on my campus (that I knew of), and sounds more like gang warfare to me. Do you really want to associate yourselves with that kind of behavior either? Winning things is important, yes, but I'd limit it to the stuff that greeks usually brag about...chapter of the year, grades, intramurals, greek week, spring sing/songfest, sorority philanthropies, etc. You want members that are honorable, not thugs.

I don't think he meant a full-out Sharks vs Jets throwdown.

What he is referring to is another fraternity might 1) have problems with the fact that some members are gay 2) have problems with any new fraternity, period, and try to start a fight. Guys do this. Hopefully it'll end at words. It has nothing to do with being "thugs."

LaneSig · #14 01-29-2007, 04:05 PM

It may be a non-issue at Northern Arizona. A member of Sigma Chi was elected the campus government president a few years ago. He was openly gay, a fact that the Sigma Chi chapter knew when they offered him the bid. The member appeared on the cover of a national gay magazine, The Advocate. He talked about several chapters at NAU having openly gay members.

adpiucf · #15 01-30-2007, 01:18 AM

You can always have the chapter leadership bring this up and adopt into your chapter bylaws:

Two gay or bisexual brothers may not date one another while they are collegiate members of the fraternity. Brothers may not date the sweetheart of the fraternity.

Just put it in writing and put it to a vote with the reasoning that while the fraternity is opening and accepting of all lifestyles, romantic relationships complicate the brotherhood no matter the orientation within the relationship. Use the analogy of dating in the workplace. You don't want to make the chapter an awkward experience or divide the chapter in the midst of a lover's quarrel. The guys should be reasonable enough to see this and you are on a big enough campus where there are others they can date. Or if being together is so important to them, one will leave the fraternity. It is a completely fair expectation.