Race & Sororities

[deepimpact2]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

You sound paranoid. I have never "heard of" any of these things you claim. Perhaps they're fabricated?

No. They aren't fabricated at all. I'm just really amazed at the fact that people either haven't heard of these kinds of situations or are just being willfully ignorant. What is even more amazing is that people are refusing to even consider the POSSIBILITY that it has happened. Are you THAT naive?

[SWTXBelle]

It's not "sugar coatiing" - it's asking that those who are merely guessing, or relying on hearsay, or gut instinct not to pass on their opinion as fact, ESPECIALLY since none of those posters have any idea of what happens during a NPC chapter selection process. Reading Pledged does not count. Any NPC member who would discuss chapter selection is, as I stated earlier, suspect. Yes, I would think she is stupid rather than honest. Let's pretend that a woman was cut for her colour - wouldn't you have to be a special kinda stupid to announce that to the world at large?

No one in the NPC has said that race might NOT be an issue - only that there is plenty of concrete evidence to say that there are many other factors in play, and that the question of race should not prevent a pnm from trying for membership. Racist individual members and perhaps even chapters? Yes. Racist NPC member groups? No.

This all brings to mind certain heresay accounts of NPHC groups using skin colour as a deciding factor in membership selection. I immediately discounted it as the kind of urban legend - and I would never tell some pnm who was looking into NPHC that she should just be aware that her skin colour was too dark/too light for the group she was interested in - not only is it outta my lane, it is giving credence to the kind of heresay that we should all be on guard against.

So if we all agree that the op should give it her best shot, understanding that recruitment at Ole Miss is HIGHLY competitive and that many qualified white women find themselves cut for unknown reasons, then there really is nothing at issue, is there?

eta - I've been an active alumnae for over 20 years, and worked with several different NPC systems at different colleges, and been involved in 3 different Alumnae Panhellenics. That's what my experience is - so before you call anyone ignorant, cite your sources for your information. No one has said is isn't a possibility - but we are dealing in concrete reality. Second-hand accounts of what some mystery person supposedly said are not very convincing.

[deepimpact2]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Chapters of GLOs that would give a member who is not of the predominant group "hell" are often located on campuses with some level of racial and ethnic tension.

.

Yeah. Even now I'm thinking about some of the racist things some orgs have done on various campuses across the South alone. Even if black women don't actually get hazed, the racist incidents are enough to deter them from wanting to join in some instances.

[agzg]

Here's a question I've been thinking about while reading this thread:

Does it really matter that the OP is biracial? Does having one white parent entitle you to NPC membership? Does having one black parent entitle you to NPHC membership? Do either of them predetermine whether or not someone would be more comfortable in an NPC or NPHC environment? Perhaps historically, and perhaps it's true of Ole Miss (I have no idea of the campus culture beyond "it's in the south"), but I think in particular there is so much that both types have to offer on the national level that stereotyping either is an exercise in futility.

I'm also borderline offended (I suppose as offended as I care to be seeing as this is an internet discussion) at the implication that NPC sororities hide their racism behind the idea that membership selection is private. If that's true of us, it's true of the NPHC and other types of GLOs as well. At the end of the day, private is private, and often times even the members that voted on specific potential new members do not know why that person was not offered the opportunity to join.

I'll admit that sometimes it could be as simple as the potential member's race, or their eye color or hair color or whether or not they're ugly or smelly or WHATEVER. Sometimes it's not. That fully depends on the chapter involved, the members of the chapter involved, and the specific organization. I do doubt, however, that any NPC has a check box for race on their membership forms.

At any rate, I think the best advice for ANY potential, be it NPC, NPHC, NALFO or local, is to be aware of what they want out of a greek life experience and to be the best potential member they can be. If the OP is not, then she's going to have a hard time getting into ANY organization. As far as she goes, she needs to make a decision which type best fits her own goals and to stick to it. Either way, she's going to limit herself.

Not that she hasn't limited herself already by posting as much as she did here. She might have limited herself to sorority chapters that have never seen nor heard of the internet.

[SWTXBelle]

Originally Posted by deepimpact2

I'm amazed at the fact that you continue to sum it all up by saying that quality black women don't apply. WOW. Like I said before, the lack of acceptance is always done in a genteel manner. And the excuse is always that the person wasn't of "quality." lol

If that's what you got out of my posting, you need to work on your reading comprehension. I gave you the specific example of Southern Methodist University, where it was indeed the case that no black women had applied when the NPC groups were being roasted in the press. I cited a very specific example to back up my assertion. You should try it some time.

And FYI - of course all of our pnms who are not invited (the literally hundreds every chapter at a major system has to cut) are done so in a genteel manner. There are no "excuses" given - none needed. Membership selection is private and you, deepimpact, have NO EXPERIENCE OR UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT IT ENTAILS.

I am encouraging women to pursue NPC membership with an open mind - what is it exactly you are doing?

[deepimpact2]

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...,58980,00.html

GEORGIA
Athens 2000 A member of the Alpha Gamma Delta sorority filed a racial discrimination complaint when other members insisted on rejecting a black freshman applicant. The University of Georgia temporarily suspended the sorority during an investigation.
Hanover 2000 A Dartmouth sorority held a "slave auction" fundraiser.
Hanover 10/98 More than 400 dartmouth students protest against a fraternity-sorority "ghetto party" where students were urged to dress as inner-city blacks

http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/story.asp?storyCode=165763&sectioncode=26
These are just a few incidents involving predominately white sororities and fraternities. It's not just hearsay or instinct or gossip, and for the record I have never read Pledged so you need to stop even bringing that up.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by agzg

Does it really matter that the OP is biracial? Does having one white parent entitle you to NPC membership? Does having one black parent entitle you to NPHC membership?

No.

This entire thread is dumb.

[SWTXBelle]

Originally Posted by deepimpact2

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...,58980,00.html

GEORGIA
Athens 2000 A member of the Alpha Gamma Delta sorority filed a racial discrimination complaint when other members insisted on rejecting a black freshman applicant. The University of Georgia temporarily suspended the sorority during an investigation.
Hanover 2000 A Dartmouth sorority held a "slave auction" fundraiser.
Hanover 10/98 More than 400 dartmouth students protest against a fraternity-sorority "ghetto party" where students were urged to dress as inner-city blacks

http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/story.asp?storyCode=165763&sectioncode=26
These are just a few incidents involving predominately white sororities and fraternities. It's not just hearsay or instinct or gossip, and for the record I have never read Pledged so you need to stop even bringing that up.

So are we discussing race as a criteria for selection? If so, only one of your posts is relevent - and filing a lawsuit proves nothing. The article you cite is 9 years old, and we aren't told the result of it. What if AGD was proven innocent? The article ends in a discussion of the dialogue engendered by the incident, so 9 years later one would hope - and barring any other evidence to the contrary, believe, that the campus has made progress.

Whether or not you read "Pledged" is not the point - the point is that you still cite what "everybody knows". Bringing in random articles about racially insensitive actions by individual chapters is a little off-topic and a great deal desperate. Obviously you are far too invested in the idea that NPC membership selection simply must be racist. Why, I can't say, but it's a little sad. So I'm done - I think my posts speak to the issue at hand, and if you want to go off on some racially charged tangent I'd suggest starting a new thread, or bumping an old one.

Nothing new to see here, move along.

[KSUViolet06]

So, in summary:

deepimpact2: NPC sororites are racist against black women and hide behind their membership selection processes, and make life miserable for the black women that do join.

Rest of GC: No.

deepimpact2: YES THEY DO. It's MY OPINION..

[SWTXBelle]

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

So, in summary:

deepimpact2: NPC sororites are racist against black women and hide behind their membership selection processes, and make life miserable for the black women that do join.

Rest of GC: No.

deepimpact2: YES THEY DO. It's MY OPINION..

Don't forget - LOOK - HERE ARE RACIALLY INSENSITIVE ACTIONS BY GLOS!

eta - gonna have to tell my black Phi Mu AP buddy that she must be lying about her experience - how could it have been so great? Obviously, she is in denial. Condi Rice must be, too.

[ThetaDancer]

Originally Posted by deepimpact2

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...,58980,00.html

GEORGIA[FONT=Arial]
Athens 2000 A member of the Alpha Gamma Delta sorority filed a racial discrimination complaint when other members insisted on rejecting a black freshman applicant. The University of Georgia temporarily suspended the sorority during an investigation.
These are just a few incidents involving predominately white sororities and fraternities. It's not just hearsay or instinct or gossip, and for the record I have never read Pledged so you need to stop even bringing that up.

I read the Georgia article first because I was curious about what research you were using to make you such an expert on NPC membership selection. I haven't read the rest of your articles, but will when I have time.

The Georgia example you cite is pretty weak. Aside from the fact that you're using a decade-old magazine article as a reference for what you're calling a current event, the entire case was based around a "she-said she-said" argument, with nothing substantiating the claims. The statement of a single disgruntled member who has no evidence, nothing at all except her own version of the story, to support what she's alleging, will rarely be considered sufficient evidence to support a claim. After a thorough examination, investigators could find "not one hint" of racism. I'm sure you have some personal theory about why that's the case, and that's fine because I'm really not trying to get into a debate about NPC membership selection with you, but your research is sloppy, at best.

I don't doubt you've "heard" lots of examples. But when you use such an insufficient example to back up your claim, it really undermines your credibility.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

Don't forget - LOOK - HERE ARE RACIALLY INSENSITIVE ACTIONS BY GLOS!

eta - gonna have to tell my black Phi Mu AP buddy that she must be lying about her experience - how could it have been so great? Obviously, she is in denial. Condi Rice must be, too.

I don't recall deepimpact ever saying ALL, she said it has happened and cited some instances. I don't see where her posts are too different than the people who typed about OleMiss. Her posts are being responded to this way because she's an outsider typing about the NPC versus an NPCer typing about it.

Of course, there are plenty of women who aren't white who have a positive NPC experience.

So, within this context, your Phi Mu buddy and Condi Rice are akin to "some of my bestfriends are black." It's like dismissing that racism and discrimination exist in society because there's a Black POTUS.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by ThetaDancer

I don't doubt you've "heard" lots of examples. But when you use such an insufficient example to back up your claim, it really undermines your credibility.

I agree and this goes back to what Munchkin was saying.

[deepimpact2]

Originally Posted by ThetaDancer

I read the Georgia article first because I was curious about what research you were using to make you such an expert on NPC membership selection. I haven't read the rest of your articles, but will when I have time.

The Georgia example you cite is pretty weak. Aside from the fact that you're using a decade-old magazine article as a reference for what you're calling a current event, the entire case was based around a "she-said she-said" argument, with nothing substantiating the claims. The statement of a single disgruntled member who has no evidence, nothing at all except her own version of the story, to support what she's alleging, will rarely be considered sufficient evidence to support a claim. After a thorough examination, investigators could find "not one hint" of racism. I'm sure you have some personal theory about why that's the case, and that's fine because I'm really not trying to get into a debate about NPC membership selection with you, but your research is sloppy, at best.

I don't doubt you've "heard" lots of examples. But when you use such an insufficient example to back up your claim, it really undermines your credibility.

The point was to show examples that racism IS a problem. You might think the article was weak. Others may disagree. Your opinion doesn't necessarily serve for all of mankind in that regard. Besides, as I said, these are just a few examples. I can and probably will post more.

[deepimpact2]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

So are we discussing race as a criteria for selection? If so, only one of your posts is relevent - and filing a lawsuit proves nothing. The article you cite is 9 years old, and we aren't told the result of it. What if AGD was proven innocent? The article ends in a discussion of the dialogue engendered by the incident, so 9 years later one would hope - and barring any other evidence to the contrary, believe, that the campus has made progress.

Whether or not you read "Pledged" is not the point - the point is that you still cite what "everybody knows". Bringing in random articles about racially insensitive actions by individual chapters is a little off-topic and a great deal desperate. Obviously you are far too invested in the idea that NPC membership selection simply must be racist. Why, I can't say, but it's a little sad. So I'm done - I think my posts speak to the issue at hand, and if you want to go off on some racially charged tangent I'd suggest starting a new thread, or bumping an old one.

Nothing new to see here, move along.

No. It isn't desperate and you know that. You and some others said I was only going on hearsay and speculation and instinct. I used that information to thow you otherwise.


This thread went off on a racial tangent some time ago, but once information starts being posted that shows examples of racial incidents, you are suddenly "done."