Gunman Opens Fire During "The Dark Knight Rises"

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

RE: Auto/gun deaths - does any place break it down per capita? That would be a better way to evaluate the data than just the raw numbers. I'd also be interested in knowing the number of registered vehicles vs. the number of guns before I decided how important/unimportant the information is.

Per capita doesn't really matter when there are MORE gun deaths than auto deaths. I guess if you haven't been trained in a medical field and know this backwards and forwards that's not as shocking, but it is ridiculous. Motor vehicle crashes are the undisputed king of killers in 40 states in the union and always has been. This is unprecedented. I did trauma surgery for two years and this was drilled into our heads.

[SWTXBelle]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

Per capita doesn't really matter when there are MORE gun deaths than auto deaths. I guess if you haven't been trained in a medical field and know this backwards and forwards that's not as shocking, but it is ridiculous. Motor vehicle crashes are the undisputed king of killers in 40 states in the union and always has been. This is unprecedented. I did trauma surgery for two years and this was drilled into our heads.

I guess it depends on how you define "doesn't really matter". I'd also want to know how many deaths were suicides, accidents, police shooting suspects, etc.

Anyone have the stats on Switzerland?

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

I guess it depends on how you define "doesn't really matter". I'd also want to know how many deaths were suicides, accidents, police shooting suspects, etc.

Anyone have the stats on Switzerland?

According the the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention:

In 2009 (latest available data), there were 36,909 reported suicide deaths.

Firearms and Suicide

Although most gun owners reportedly keep a firearm in their home for "protection" or "self defense," 83 percent of gun-related deaths in these homes are the result of a suicide, often by someone other than the gun owner.

Firearms are used in more suicides than homicides.

Death by firearms is the fastest growing method of suicide.

Firearms account for 50 percent of all suicides.

If what they say is true, 18,455 gun deaths in 2009 were by suicide, not homicide. Of course, this doesn't even take into account police shootings or accidents.


http://www.afsp.org/index.cfm?fuseac...135c3a70de1fda

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

I guess it depends on how you define "doesn't really matter". I'd also want to know how many deaths were suicides, accidents, police shooting suspects, etc.

Anyone have the stats on Switzerland?

It doesn't matter because you are already given a comparison...the number of motor vehicle deaths which happen to be the de facto #1 cause of death in every other state in the union. Per capita data is just comparison data. You don't need to points of comparison. One really will suffice. The breakdown of types of gunshot causes might be interesting to talk about for prevention (the whole point of bringing up the need for discussing the change in #1 cause of death in these states), but suicide and accidents can't be removed from those numbers as they are valid types of preventable gun violence.

[Jeff OTMG]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

...suicide and accidents can't be removed from those numbers as they are valid types of preventable gun violence.

I agree that accidental gun deaths should not be excluded from 'gun violence' stats because the death would not have occurred otherwise. Fortunately the accidental gun death rate is at an all time low. 613 in 2007, 592 in 2008, and dropping. Having been a firearms trainer, shooter, competitor, in some way shape or form over the last 40 years and growing up in a home where my father was an FBI agent for 30 years with loaded guns in the home out in the open, I strongly urge any of you with young children to seriously look at the NRA Eddie the Eagle gun safety program. It is the best that I have ever seen. It is the most effective program available. I taught the program in schools to at risk children when I was working in Indianapolis back in 2000 and 2001.

It isn't true of suicide. People committing suicide use whatever method is available. Removing firearms from a population does not prevent suicide. See Japan.

[PeppyGPhiB]

I have my CPL, and from what info. has been made public, I doubt I would have drawn my weapon and fired in this situation. That is, if I was carrying at the time. Dark theatre, assailant dressed in black and SWAT gear, hundreds of people running through the rows and aisles, and tear gas that made it even harder to see and breathe. And my Ruger would have been no match for an AR-15 with expanded capacity magazine. The risk would have been too great that I may hit an innocent person running for their life, and then I would be on trial for homicide.

Someone mentioned that a flashlight could have blinded him. Maybe, but the thing is, with an AR-15 he didn't even need to see...he just sprayed the room with bullets.

I'm with the poster (I think it was SydneyK) who speculated that there probably was someone in the theatre who was packing. But if so, I don't blame them for not drawing on this guy. Not only was it likely very difficult to draw a weapon in that situation (realizing what was going on, from a sitting position, hitting the deck or running for the exit), but it carried a high likelihood of causing collateral damage (and drawing the gunman's attention in a negative way).

[PeppyGPhiB]

Oh, and the banning of guns will never happen in this country. For several reasons, but one is that I believe it would basically plunge our country into civil war. Yes, really. Martial Law would need to be declared, and by the time the military was done forcefully disarming the American public, the country would be devastated.

[ADqtPiMel]

For what it's worth, I have Nationals season tickets and the only searching they do is a cursory look inside any bag. If you're not carrying a bag, there's no search at all.

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by ADqtPiMel

For what it's worth, I have Nationals season tickets and the only searching they do is a cursory look inside any bag. If you're not carrying a bag, there's no search at all.

Truth. I always thought those bag checks at ball games were to make sure you didn't bring in contraband food or ways to record the game.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by tcsparky

What a lot of people have problems with is TSA sticking their fingers in female children's vaginas, forcing nursing mothers to drink their own breast milk and painfully squeezing men's privates to prove they aren't terrorists. And let's not forget about the body scanner naked pictures that were saved, passed around and laughed at by TSA agents. These are the things that make people get fed up with flying.

These are also things that are not proper procedure and are not supposed to be happening. They're not about security measures imposed by TSA, they're about abuses of power. If you're going to accuse others of over-reacting, you might want to avoid the over-reaction yourself.

Originally Posted by excelblue

Going thru excessive security to do the things you like is like getting hazed to join a GLO: shouldn't be happening and ruins the experience.

. . . It's hard to be happy when your freedoms are violated excessively.

I guess this must be a matter of perspective. I've been through airport security many times, and I have never felt that my freedoms were violated in the least. I

Originally Posted by PeppyGPhiB

I have my CPL, and from what info. has been made public, I doubt I would have drawn my weapon and fired in this situation. That is, if I was carrying at the time. Dark theatre, assailant dressed in black and SWAT gear, hundreds of people running through the rows and aisles, and tear gas that made it even harder to see and breathe. And my Ruger would have been no match for an AR-15 with expanded capacity magazine. The risk would have been too great that I may hit an innocent person running for their life, and then I would be on trial for homicide.

Someone mentioned that a flashlight could have blinded him. Maybe, but the thing is, with an AR-15 he didn't even need to see...he just sprayed the room with bullets.

I'm with the poster (I think it was SydneyK) who speculated that there probably was someone in the theatre who was packing. But if so, I don't blame them for not drawing on this guy. Not only was it likely very difficult to draw a weapon in that situation (realizing what was going on, from a sitting position, hitting the deck or running for the exit), but it carried a high likelihood of causing collateral damage (and drawing the gunman's attention in a negative way).

I think you and Sydney may well be right. and I read in one place that he was standing in front of the screen, which I would think would have made him harder to see/distinguish.

Originally Posted by PeppyGPhiB

Oh, and the banning of guns will never happen in this country. For several reasons, but one is that I believe it would basically plunge our country into civil war. Yes, really. Martial Law would need to be declared, and by the time the military was done forcefully disarming the American public, the country would be devastated.

Not to mention that super-majorities of Congress and of state legislatures would have to approve an amendment to the Constitution.

[Kevin]

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by Kevin

[aephi alum]

Setting the gun control debate aside for the moment...

Guess what?

Those attention whores at the Westboro Baptist Church are at it again. They are planning to "super picket" a prayer vigil for the shooting victims. They are tweeting away about it, with such lovely hashtags as "#ThankGodForTheShooter".

Story from Huffington Post

[AGDee]

Originally Posted by sigmagirl2000

Interesting chart:



Interesting to see how this translates to red and blue states. I also had to idea that Michigan was so populated..... (or if it isn't, there are just a lot of gun and motor vehicle deaths there).


ETA: Since I'm a number/ math nerd, this was interesting to me. DC is high up there with the guns, as are the Virgin Islands (whoa!)

This makes me think that being in Massachusetts I have a good chance of not being killed by vehicle or gun. Now I just need to avoid the coyotes that hang out by my car early in the morning when I'm going to work....

Michigan is the 8th largest state in terms of population. It was higher before the "depression" here. We've lost almost about a half million people since 2005.

[lovespink88]

Originally Posted by aephi alum

Setting the gun control debate aside for the moment...

Guess what?

Those attention whores at the Westboro Baptist Church are at it again. They are planning to "super picket" a prayer vigil for the shooting victims. They are tweeting away about it, with such lovely hashtags as "#ThankGodForTheShooter".

Story from Huffington Post

Not laughing at the horribleness if the tradegy but LOL at "super picket". WTF does that mean?

"Let's put 'super' in front of it...that'll show everyone we REALLY mean it!"

ETA: Also, I love buzzfeed.com: http://www.buzzfeed.com/mjs538/the-3...urch-protest-s