Gunman Opens Fire During "The Dark Knight Rises"

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

In the state of Arizona, which has concealed carry AND some of the most lax gun laws in the country, death by gunshot wound is more common than death by motor vehicle crash. This only happens in 3 states in the union. That is astounding since nationwide motor vehicle crashes account for the majority of deaths of people ages 4-34. Homicide is #2 in the 4-24 group, but that includes all types of homicide. That is a lot of gun violence in Arizona that has not been improved by concealed carry or putting more guns in law abiding citizens hands. More guns does not equal less death by guns.

First of all AZ is a weird state. Something is in the water, or lack of water, to make the people there "off". They have the most suicide by gun and police shootings per population then any other state. You can use these stats to try to prove any point you want but it's hard to get anything to stick. Look at California for example. They have the strictest gun laws in the union yet are consistently number one in the country for violent gun crimes so the more restrictions, less death argument isn't exactly a solid one.

[dukedg]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

First of all AZ is a weird state. Something is in the water, or lack of water, to make the people there "off". They have the most suicide by gun and police shootings per population then any other state. You can use these stats to try to prove any point you want but it's hard to get anything to stick. Look at California for example. They have the strictest gun laws in the union yet are consistently number one in the country for violent gun crimes so the more restrictions, less death argument isn't exactly a solid one.

Will you please post your source? I don't usually get involved in these discussions, but I have to defend California! Here's a link to statistics on a per capita basis, that disproves your comment above. I realize this article is out of date, so perhaps you have a more current source? http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datab...rt-of-comments

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by dukedg

Will you please post your source? I don't usually get involved in these discussions, but I have to defend California! Here's a link to statistics on a per capita basis, that disproves your comment above. I realize this article is out of date, so perhaps you have a more current source? http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datab...rt-of-comments

I was referring to the actual numbers of murders, not the per capita rate. CA seems to be 12th per capita but still has the most handgun murders in the country at 953 handgun murders. The second place goes to TX at 581 gun murders. Take it for what it is but like i've been saying, if there was a definite correlation between gun laws and murder rates this debate would have been settled long ago.

[ibis]

I guess that no one ever knows what is in a persons mind. No one knows what may make a persons mind snap.
Parents always say He is a good boy, but who actually knows?
According to Drs. or Lawyers in court, they were abused as a child or bullied in life.

But some with so called normal lives can be triggered by some small thing in the brain that no one knows about.

Guns are just made of metal and do not go off by themselves and neither do bombs unless there is a human factor to pull the trigger or drop the bomb.

I guess I will never join the 72 virgins in the after life as I do not plan on shooting or killing anyone.

We must keep guns for a way to defend each other. If we as Colonists did not have guns, we would be speaking The Kings English.

Now I wonder how long it will be before he goes to court and even if he will be convicted? How much will it cost us as tax payers to keep this rat bastard in bed and breakfast?

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by ibis

I guess that no one ever knows what is in a persons mind. No one knows what may make a persons mind snap.
Parents always say He is a good boy, but who actually knows?
According to Drs. or Lawyers in court, they were abused as a child or bullied in life.

But some with so called normal lives can be triggered by some small thing in the brain that no one knows about.

Guns are just made of metal and do not go off by themselves and neither do bombs unless there is a human factor to pull the trigger or drop the bomb.

I guess I will never join the 72 virgins in the after life as I do not plan on shooting or killing anyone.

We must keep guns for a way to defend each other. If we as Colonists did not have guns, we would be speaking The Kings English.

Now I wonder how long it will be before he goes to court and even if he will be convicted? How much will it cost us as tax payers to keep this rat bastard in bed and breakfast?

TEITY?

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

First of all AZ is a weird state. Something is in the water, or lack of water, to make the people there "off". They have the most suicide by gun and police shootings per population then any other state. You can use these stats to try to prove any point you want but it's hard to get anything to stick. Look at California for example. They have the strictest gun laws in the union yet are consistently number one in the country for violent gun crimes so the more restrictions, less death argument isn't exactly a solid one.

I'll agree that AZ is weird, but having the most lax gun laws with more guns running around than any other state CANNOT be discounted as a reason for these stats.

[AOII Angel]

BTW, I was wrong, it is ten states not three with this historic change in #1 cause of death to gun violence rather than motor vehicle crash. I thought I heard 3 when I was listening to reports of this on NPR, but I found different reports when I looked for references on the Internet.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/josh-s...b_1536793.html

Alaska: 104 gun deaths, 84 motor vehicle deaths
Arizona: 856 gun deaths, 809 motor vehicle deaths
Colorado: 583 gun deaths, 565 motor vehicle deaths
Indiana: 735 gun deaths, 715 motor vehicle deaths
Michigan: 1,095 gun deaths, 977 motor vehicle deaths
Nevada: 406 gun deaths, 255 motor vehicle deaths
Oregon: 417 gun deaths, 394 motor vehicle deaths
Utah: 260 gun deaths, 256 motor vehicle deaths
Virginia: 836 gun deaths, 827 motor vehicle deaths
Washington: 623 gun deaths, 580 motor vehicle deaths

Please note that none of these are California or any other liberal bastion of gun control.

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

BTW, I was wrong, it is ten states not three with this historic change in #1 cause of death to gun violence rather than motor vehicle crash. I thought I heard 3 when I was listening to reports of this on NPR, but I found different reports when I looked for references on the Internet.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/josh-s...b_1536793.html




Please note that none of these are California or any other liberal bastion of gun control.

And the point of comparing gun deaths to auto deaths is..?? I mean, traffic fatalities have been on the steady decline for quite a few years due to cars being equipped with better safety features, the implementation of the "seatbelt always on" mentality, better student driver trainings, etc. The gun death numbers on the huffpo article come from the Violence Policy Center, which include suicides and police shootings in their numbers. I've long heard that 2/3 of all gunshot fatalities are results of self-inflicted injuries (suicide/accidents) as opposed to murder. I don't have time now but I'll look it up later. Will stricter gun laws prevent suicides? I really don't think so.

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by DGTess

Do you really want to live in a world where you're not trusted to do anything, and are searched everywhere you go? I don't. I would MUCH rather face the possibility of a madman than to give up individual liberties.

I don't know if you're aware of this or not, but we already live in this world. Why do you think we can't take liquids through airport security, and have to remove our shoes? Why do you think there's heightened security in offices and government buildings? Why do we have to have our bags checked before entering a concert or sporting event? Because there are evil people in this world who have killed innocent people, and have inconvenienced the rest of us.

But I'd rather deal with a 15 minute inconvenience than end up dead. But maybe that's just me.

And what's the trade-off here? Wait 15 minutes to get into the theater.. Or wait 15 miniutes sitting in my seat. There's no real difference if you ask me.

Originally Posted by MysticCat

It's not that it's not possible that it could have helped. It course it might have. What I'm uncomfortable with is the bald assertions in the wake of an incident like this along the lines of "this shows why we need to be able to carry concealed weapon into places like movie theaters." I think that's a knee-jerk reaction that ignores the possibility of the law of unintended consequences and assumes only two possible outcomes -- that it would have helped or that it would not have made a difference -- and ignores the third possible outcome. That's the part of it I have a problem with.

Exaaaaactly.

[DGTess]

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06

I don't know if you're aware of this or not, but we already live in this world. Why do you think we can't take liquids through airport security, and have to remove our shoes? Why do you think there's heightened security in offices and government buildings? Why do we have to have our bags checked before entering a concert or sporting event? Because there are evil people in this world who have killed innocent people, and have inconvenienced the rest of us.

But I'd rather deal with a 15 minute inconvenience than end up dead. But maybe that's just me.

And what's the trade-off here? Wait 15 minutes to get into the theater.. Or wait 15 miniutes sitting in my seat. There's no real difference if you ask me.

Exaaaaactly.

I've quit flying.

I recently canceled plans to go to a Nationals baseball game when I learned I'd be searched like a common criminal.

I'm perfectly happy staying away from places where I'm presumed guilty. But maybe that's just me.

It just amuses me that after an atrocious crime, the rules and regulations change to punish those who didn't do it.

[SydneyK]

Originally Posted by DGTess

I've quit flying.

I recently canceled plans to go to a Nationals baseball game when I learned I'd be searched like a common criminal.

I'm perfectly happy staying away from places where I'm presumed guilty. But maybe that's just me.

Wow - I find it quite sad that you'd rather avoid doing things you (used to) like simply because of added security measures.

Originally Posted by DGTess

It just amuses me that after an atrocious crime, the rules and regulations change to punish those who didn't do it.

Except that the rules and regulations aren't put in place to punish people - they're put in place to protect people.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by DGTess

I'm perfectly happy staying away from places where I'm presumed guilty. But maybe that's just me.

It just amuses me that after an atrocious crime, the rules and regulations change to punish those who didn't do it.

Inconvenienced? Absolutely

Presumed guilty? Of course not. If you were presumed guilty you wouldn't be asked to go through security, you'd simply be detained and locked up.

Punished? Only by yourself, it seems to me.

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by DGTess

I've quit flying.

I recently canceled plans to go to a Nationals baseball game when I learned I'd be searched like a common criminal.

I'm perfectly happy staying away from places where I'm presumed guilty. But maybe that's just me.

It just amuses me that after an atrocious crime, the rules and regulations change to punish those who didn't do it.

You quit flying because you have to take off your shoes and can only buy a bottle of water after going through security?

You didn't go to a baseball game because when walking in, someone might ask you to open your purse so they could take a glance inside?

It amuses you that rules/processes/procedures are changed because people die? Using this logic, most laws involving cars could be thrown out the window... Not wearing a seatbelt? Just be careful! Driving 30mph over the speed limit? Have fun! You're driving drunk? Carry on!

And you find this to be punishment? Yea, you're right... If 9/11 taught us anything, it's that terrorists should be allowed on planes armed to the teeth. Let's forget the metal detectors altogether!

Hell, why even give the TSA agent my ID? God forbid I'd have to open my wallet and pull it aaaaall the way out for them to look at for 10 seconds.

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by tcsparky

Holy Overraction! Calm down a bit. The sarcasm fallback might have sounded OK in your head, but it came across as bitter. No one said anything about allowing "armed to the teeth terrorists" on planes. No one said anything about scrapping the metal detectors, or not pulling out the ID for ten whole seconds.

Yes.. DGTess did. She said:

It just amuses me that after an atrocious crime, the rules and regulations change to punish those who didn't do it.

If we removed all security measures that are a result of an awful crime (or attempted crime), there would be no security at all. I doubt very much that many people would approve of that.

What a lot of people have problems with is TSA sticking their fingers in female children's vaginas, forcing nursing mothers to drink their own breast milk and painfully squeezing men's privates to prove they aren't terrorists. And let's not forget about the body scanner naked pictures that were saved, passed around and laughed at by TSA agents. These are the things that make people get fed up with flying.

DGTess said nothing about any of this. She reacted to this statement of mine:

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06

I don't know if you're aware of this or not, but we already live in this world. Why do you think we can't take liquids through airport security, and have to remove our shoes? Why do you think there's heightened security in offices and government buildings? Why do we have to have our bags checked before entering a concert or sporting event? Because there are evil people in this world who have killed innocent people, and have inconvenienced the rest of us.

.. And she added nothing else to it.

Besides, strip searches and drinking your own breastmilk are not part of the rules and regulations. This an abuse of power which should be handled by these employees' superiors. Two totally different issues.

chill and allow discourse.

I'll react however I want, thanks.