Kappa Beta Gamma/Kappa Delta

[33girl]

Originally Posted by ta kala

Well, seeing as how "many" does not have a definite number attached to it, it can take on different definitions. KBG may have been founded in 2002, but the seniors who were initiated into Kappa Delta expressed that they have worked for some time on NPC affiliation. Considering they joined in 2004, I would say that accounts for many years of KBG's existence.

And how would you say that we have been disrespectful, if that is what you are implying?

From the sounds of it, they joined up with KBG because they couldn't get an NPC to come to the school with the weird nonrecognition situation. So they probably wanted to be NPC from the beginning. This is not in any way a diss on them - their hands were tied as to what they could do. Like I said this was a really bizarre situation and not likely to happen again (hopefully). But I'm sorry, 6 years really is a drop in the bucket. Your post made it sound like decades and decades.

As for that second comment, I said NPC, not KD. NPC apparently told KBG they would help them and went back on that promise. I find that bogus, just like some other previous promises NPC as a group made and broke.

Oh and re the XO-->Zeta Psi Sigma-->AXO deal at CMU, one of the sisters of the chapter said on here that they contacted Chi O, and Chi O sent them a letter back saying they weren't interested. They can hardly be mad if they were asked to come back and declined.

I have never said anything negative about KD in this thread - in fact I have commended them for the above board way they handled it - so don't get all defensive and make me change my mind.

[LPIDelta]

I think part of the challenge with thse situations is the question of what exactly is a national sorority? KBG has declared itself to be national, but they do not (possibly cannot?) provide the same kinds of opportunities as an NPC--not anything wrong with that, but I wonder sometimes if women think they are getting something they are not because a group has chartered itself as a "national".

I speak from experience--there is a KBG chapter at my alma mater, and even before they expanded outside the IL/MI/WI region would call itself a national. The women in my organization were then in the position of having to explain why our dues were higher in comparison-- from the PNM perspective, a national is a national, right? So why is one group's dues so much higher than the other?

Yet, the benefits of membership were VERY different when talking about national networking, convention and other programming opportunities.

I am not slamming KBG or any other non-NPC national organization--because there is a place for them. But I imagine that there are some women who just don't understand that there is a difference.

[chitownxo]

[QUOTE=33girl;1647727]
There's a GC poster whose mom was a KBG alumna from LUC and apparently the alums had NO idea any of this was happening. I'm sorry, but that is absolutely inexcusable.

QUOTE]

I'm the poster...some of the LUC alums STILL do not know about the change. My mom had lunch with a couple of her pledge sisters a month or so ago, and they were shocked this happened...especially since the LUC KBG girls were still soliciting donations from their alumni the summer before the switch.

[breathesgelatin]

Originally Posted by chitownxo

I'm the poster...some of the LUC alums STILL do not know about the change. My mom had lunch with a couple of her pledge sisters a month or so ago, and they were shocked this happened...especially since the LUC KBG girls were still soliciting donations from their alumni the summer before the switch.

OOF.... How old was the LUC KBG chapter?

[chitownxo]

Originally Posted by breathesgelatin

OOF.... How old was the LUC KBG chapter?

Over 50 years -- my mom pledged back in 1960.

[SoCalGirl]

Originally Posted by kddani

Read her post closer and read the entire thread. KD is colonizing at F&M, not LUC. The poster is referring to another chapter of KBG that decided to change to an NPC sorority and chose KKG. Read the thread, its mentioned several times.

My appologies. I over looked the few sentances that clearly mentioned KKG.

[lucgreek]

Originally Posted by 33girl

The chapter was not released by KBG national. The girls did not "disassociate" - what they did made the chapter disappear. If they didn't want to be in KBG, they could have terminated themselves from KBG and started an interest group for a new NPC sorority. The problem is that would have taken time, getting recognized, etc, and apparently "don't care how, I want it now!!" You say that there are girls who didn't want the switch - why couldn't they have kept the KBG chapter alive? It sounds like the girls who went to KKG shit talked KBG to LUC's Panhel and LUC in general, because if LUC had such an issue with KBG not being NPC they would have done something about it before this.

There's a GC poster whose mom was a KBG alumna from LUC and apparently the alums had NO idea any of this was happening. I'm sorry, but that is absolutely inexcusable.



Many years??? The KBG chapter has only been there since 2002. It's not like they had been complaining about them since the 60s or something.

As a member of one of the "1951 joiners" - I'm a little sensitive to stuff like NPC not following through on promises they make or being disrespectful to smaller groups.

the girls who didn't want the switch were in a very small minority. i'm also fairly certain luc greek life really wanted npc affiliation for all of their sororities. luc greek life department also wanted the 4 fraternity/4 sorority number, hence also why KBG was not allowed to continue. before it was decided on the KKG affiliation (if I remember right) it was already decided KBG could not recruit new girls and that whatever new sorority came would be the one that could recruit.

greek life at luc has been on the upswing in recent years so having 4 NPC sororities is what the greek life department liked.

honestly, the KKG girls are nice and no one on campus really has any hard feelings over the situation. do nationals? probably so. but the KKG girls felt that having a bigger sorority to be a part of (that paid attention to them) would ultimately be more beneficial than remaining with KBG.

aside from the minority of KBG girls that wanted KBG to remain, there wasn't really any drama on campus over the situation.

[chitownxo]

That's great that there was very little campus drama over the situation...that's not what's shaddy here, and that's not why people are upset. It's the fact the former LUC KBG girls snuck around and didn't let their National organization know their intentions...or the alums who continued to support the chapter up until the end. These girls destroyed 50 years of history without explaining themselves to the sisters who came before them....that's wrong. I don't know if their National Organization "ignored" them. I know they had asked for help with recruitment, and their National responded. It might not be what they wanted, or needed, and maybe that was the catalyst.

There's a right way to do things, and there's a wrong way. The F&M Chapter, regardless of how anyone feels about their disaffiliation, did things the correct way. The LUC Chapter did not.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by lucgreek

the girls who didn't want the switch were in a very small minority. i'm also fairly certain luc greek life really wanted npc affiliation for all of their sororities. luc greek life department also wanted the 4 fraternity/4 sorority number, hence also why KBG was not allowed to continue. before it was decided on the KKG affiliation (if I remember right) it was already decided KBG could not recruit new girls and that whatever new sorority came would be the one that could recruit.

greek life at luc has been on the upswing in recent years so having 4 NPC sororities is what the greek life department liked.

honestly, the KKG girls are nice and no one on campus really has any hard feelings over the situation. do nationals? probably so. but the KKG girls felt that having a bigger sorority to be a part of (that paid attention to them) would ultimately be more beneficial than remaining with KBG.

aside from the minority of KBG girls that wanted KBG to remain, there wasn't really any drama on campus over the situation.

Could KBG nationals really not have known that the writing was on the wall for the LUC campus? Sounds like the administration had decided that KBG would not continue on their campus, and these girls decided to go KKG rather than not be greek at all.

[oldu]

Over the years there have been many fraternity and sorority chapters that resigned from a small national to become chapters of NIC or NPC organizations. The Alpha Delta Pi chapter at University of St. Louis is another one-time Kappa Beta Gamma chapter. Their St. Norbert chapter withdrew and was a local for several years before returning to the national. As has been stated, it is very difficult for a small national organization to provide adequate services as the campus level becomes more competitive with larger national organizations.

[texas*princess]

Originally Posted by chitownxo

Yeah, I see a problem with this...but then again, my mom's a KBG alum from the LUC Chapter which affilated with KKG last year. To me if you pledge your loyalty to a sisterhood then drop it to join a bigger one....well, how loyal are you, really?

I agree.

[texas*princess]

Originally Posted by ta kala

Ok, I am very invested in the women of Kappa Delta at Franklin & Marshall. Without going into too much detail (out of respect to those involved), I will say that these women are incredibly dedicated to Kappa Delta. If you knew how much time and effort they have put in to this endeavor (not just in the past month), you would see that.

Also, the founders of the local that preceded KBG originally wanted to be a NPC, but due to campus conditions, were unable to do so.

With that being said, the reason many of these women did not "join an NPC in the first place" is because they liked the women of KBG. Tri Sigma left in 2004, leaving just Chi Omega and KBG, until this past fall. So the majority of KD's members had a choice between ChiO and KBG and felt a closer connection to the KBG women.

I am not trying to put down KBG, but the women saw how ChiO operated and especially after APhi joined, they yearned for an organization that could provide them with the same resources that their Panhellenic sisters were receiving.


And they never "turned their badges in" because they never received them (at least none of the current collegiate members did).

Regardless of whether or not they have received their badges, I would venture to guess they took some kind of oath of loyalty to KBG.

If they felt a closer connection to the girls of KBG, why abandon that and make it into something it wasn't just because they wanted an org with more resources like the other sororities on campus? Or why join KBG in the first place if they "yearned" to be part of a group with better resources?

Or they could have waited it out, formed an interest group and get organized. It is possible that down the road their interest group could be picked up by a NPC.

It just doesn't seem right to join an National org just to leave it to join a bigger one.

[Senusret I]

^^^ I agree with that sentiment.

My point of view is...where does it end? Like, what's to say an NPC couldn't just pick up a chapter of an NPHC? Or an all-female chapter of APO (it happens)?

[kddani]

Originally Posted by texas*princess

Regardless of whether or not they have received their badges, I would venture to guess they took some kind of oath of loyalty to KBG.

If they felt a closer connection to the girls of KBG, why abandon that and make it into something it wasn't just because they wanted an org with more resources like the other sororities on campus? Or why join KBG in the first place if they "yearned" to be part of a group with better resources?

Or they could have waited it out, formed an interest group and get organized. It is possible that down the road their interest group could be picked up by a NPC.

It just doesn't seem right to join an National org just to leave it to join a bigger one.

TP, do you have any knowledge or info about the ADPi chapter cited by oldu that had formerly been a KBG chapter?

[33girl]

Originally Posted by lucgreek

luc greek life department also wanted the 4 fraternity/4 sorority number, hence also why KBG was not allowed to continue.

I'm sorry but that is one of the flipping stupidest things I have ever heard. You have as many sororities and fraternities on campus as the market will bear. The only time I have heard that a Greek life dept/admin wants x number of groups is when a cap is put on the amount of groups - i.e. when the admin really doesn't want Greek life to get bigger. If that is the case at LUC, then I would hardly say Greek life is on the "upswing."

And if KBG really were pushed out by the administration, I hope every single one of their alums cuts off donations. Although since KBG members have posted about the situation on here and NEVER mentioned that they were getting any kind of pressure from LUC because they weren't an NPC group, I'm kind of thinking that's a bunch of BS.

t*p - The situation at F & M was very very very weird. The groups were not recognized by the school, and at the time KBG started they didn't know if they ever WOULD be. (I think they were "working toward" rerecognition, but stuff like that can take a long time) Some NPCs have rules that they won't colonize a campus where Greeks are unrecognized, therefore they were limited in their options. They could have been an interest group that never got picked up, and I'm guessing that since the other groups on campus were national (colonized before derecognition) they didn't want to be a local. So they went with KBG.