Kappa Beta Gamma/Kappa Delta

[chitownxo]

Yeah, I see a problem with this...but then again, my mom's a KBG alum from the LUC Chapter which affilated with KKG last year. To me if you pledge your loyalty to a sisterhood then drop it to join a bigger one....well, how loyal are you, really?

FWIW, I will say I believe the ladies at F&M were more honest about looking to join an NPC chapter than their former LUC sisters. From what I've heard, the F&M KBG sisters told their nationals they were looking to affilate elsewhere before it happened. They kept everything above-board and honorable, and I'm sure they'll be a fantastic addition to the KD sisterhood. The LUC KBG chapter (which, by the way, was over 40 years old) didn't clue their National in to the fact that they were trying to leave until after the fact. That's not right.

If BootyKBG is still around, I'm sure she'll have a lot more first-hand info about this, and I, for one, would be interested in her thoughts on this.

[KSUViolet06]

Let's remember that the F&M girls did ask permission from KBG to be released, as opposed to the LUC group. I doubt they would have wanted to go through with it if they hadn't gotten KBG's approval (considering the bit of a mess that was caused with the LUC chapter).

I also would be interested in any KBG's thoughts about this and how they as a national are handling this (like are they upset, etc). I also wonder if they are looking at this and wondering why it is that their chapters are becoming interested in other orgs (and maybe looking into it).

[AlwaysSAI]

Originally Posted by chitownxo

FWIW, I will say I believe the ladies at F&M were more honest about looking to join an NPC chapter than their former LUC sisters. From what I've heard, the F&M KBG sisters told their nationals they were looking to affilate elsewhere before it happened. They kept everything above-board and honorable, and I'm sure they'll be a fantastic addition to the KD sisterhood. The LUC KBG chapter (which, by the way, was over 40 years old) didn't clue their National in to the fact that they were trying to leave until after the fact. That's not right.

Yes, I do agree and am glad that at least they had enough dignity to admit that they were seeking NPC affiliation.

The bigger issue I see with it is the loyalty of those sisters that were just initiated. They have not proven any sort of loyalty to KBG by doing what they did. If being apart of a large, well established NPC chapter was important to you, why didn't you join an NPC in the first place? What kind of loyalty will they have to KD? I hate when women join chapters just to disaffiliate later and I guess the bigger issue I see is KD assisting the chapter in their endeavors.

Initiation is initiation no matter if it's NPC and I'll always have respect for that.

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by AlwaysSAI

I hate when women join chapters just to disaffiliate later and I guess the bigger issue I see is KD assisting the chapter in their endeavors.

I'm fairly sure that KD made sure that they had been released by KBG before they moved forward with the process. I doubt they would've without it. I don't believe there was any wrongdoing on KD's part.

[AlwaysSAI]

Oh, no, KSU, I wasn't saying KD had done anything wrong at all.

What I'm trying to say is--essentially, these women joined KBG and turned in their badges (when they asked to be released) only to re-affiliate with Kappa Delta. And, I when I said that Kappa Delta was assisting them, I meant that by going on with the colonization, Kappa Delta was assisting the women in turning away from KBG. Make sense?

I just hate it when women affiliate and then turn in their badges, is all.

[BootyKBG]

Ok, I would have posted sooner but was not aware of this discussion until extremely recently. Here is what happened.

The Nu chapter of KBG at Franklin and Marshall decided as active members that they wanted to affiliate with a panhellenic sorority. They had been in discussion about this with nationals on and off for maybe a year before they formally requested disaffiliation. Several years back our nationals was weak and supported by ONE active alumna who didn't ask for help until other former executive members stepped in. Since then we have continued to grow and strengthen as a national organization.

Because of this weak time period, said national alumna who was serving as sole board member with poor judgement suggested the possibility of a merger to the chapters during the annual convention. Our strongest chapters at that time took this back with them, dispite the fact that during that same convention an entirely new national board came on and began the revising process.

Nu initially began asking for items that we simply couldn't or wouldn't supply, such as buying them a house. We had 5 chapters with extremely low dues compared to many NPC sororities, and because of this that is something that constitutionally we just don't provide. After much discussion the chapter decided that buying "stuff they could find their letters on" was more important that honoring their history and the support that KBG had provided up til that time, including the efforts of re-recognition by campus.

The chapter initially began the disaffiliation process as defined by the national bylaws and was open about the situation, compared to the chapter at Loyola who approached NPC without any discussion with nationals. Unfortunately, the affiliation with an NPC on both account began while the chapter was still under KBG. To this point, neither chapter completely disaffiliated as required, and NPC allowed their organizations to move in on the chapter with little to no formal contact with KBG Nationals.

NPC has in neither case given KBG the respect it gives its own sorority members in disaffiliation and affiliation with another organization.

[LPIDelta]

Originally Posted by BootyKBG

NPC has in neither case given KBG the respect it gives its own sorority members in disaffiliation and affiliation with another organization.

NPC is not a "governing" organization per se--no one really decides what can and can't be done, so much as the member groups work together to establish "unanimous agreements." So it may be more accurate to reference NPC member groups rather than blame NPC in general.

[KSUViolet06]

Could the difficulties in communication between KBG and the NPCs involved be explained by the fact that there is little precedent for this kind of thing? NPCs typically absorb locals, so I don't think they were really sure how to go about dealing with expansion and another national.

[BootyKBG]

Originally Posted by LPIDelta

NPC is not a "governing" organization per se--no one really decides what can and can't be done, so much as the member groups work together to establish "unanimous agreements." So it may be more accurate to reference NPC member groups rather than blame NPC in general.

I understand this, however, when expansion is opened up on a campus for one of our chapters and we are told there is nothing we can do about it, I find that extremely disrespectful. This is exactly what happened in the Loyola situation when we were contacted by NPC, and I am not sure we even were contacted with the F&M situation, but I may be wrong on that one as I am not the main contact.

[BootyKBG]

Our website is being redone as we speak. I hate how out of date it is, but we should have a much better, current website in a month or so.

In addition to our Xi chapter, we currently have 2 colonies (Penn-State Harrisburg and Keene State College) and several interest groups. We are also in process of improving our alumnae relations and membership procedures. We are also in discussions with other non-NPC sororities about coordinating efforts, since NPC as a whole seems to find us insignificant and no more relevant than a local. (No offense to locals, but there should be a difference when it comes to "absorbing" or "colonizing" with another national sorority.) I would not be surprised to hear that the sororities who presented to our chapters were not aware that either chapter at F&M and Loyola had been formally released because of the disregard we've recieved as a national by NPC.

As a national organization we are continuing growth and improvement, so as far as gossip about being absorbed elsewhere, it is far from true. I am open to discussion if anyone wants to discuss this directly.

vice@kappabetagamma.org

Annie

[Katydid617]

Originally Posted by BootyKBG

Nu initially began asking for items that we simply couldn't or wouldn't supply, such as buying them a house. We had 5 chapters with extremely low dues compared to many NPC sororities, and because of this that is something that constitutionally we just don't provide. After much discussion the chapter decided that buying "stuff they could find their letters on" was more important that honoring their history and the support that KBG had provided up til that time, including the efforts of re-recognition by campus.

I agree with nittanyalum as buying "stuff they could find their letters on" is as far from the truth as humanly possible and it is unfair to say that. That had absolutely no bearing on the decision. It is quite easy to get these things now a days as evidenced by the plethora of websites offering these services. The F & M chapter also never asked KBG for a house as per F & M policy the college provides houses to all greek organizations. The chapter absolutely asked for assistance on a variety of matters, but a house was never asked for. Also as a side not, the National Dues paid to KBG are more expensive then then National dues the women of F & M pay to KD.

The women of F & M have always appreciated the efforts of KBG during our re-recognition time and we will continue to appreciate it. As previously mentioned we grew apart and in the end I think the best decision for both groups was made. It has been a goal for the women of F & M to include KBG in our New Member Education program as it is part of our history and will always remain so. A strong appeal of KD was their willingness to allow the women of F & M to continue to educate its new members on our KBG history.

As has been previously mentioned, the F & M situation happened above the table as NPC was in contact with KBG Nationals (I was present for the conversations) and I do not understand what else there is to be discussing specific to this situation. I am sorry, but I am not comfortable with my chapter and my sisters being unfairly insulted on the internet.

[nittanyalum]

Sorry, but I had to LOL at the competing Est. dates in the signatures now...

[BootyKBG]

Originally Posted by Katydid617

I agree with nittanyalum as buying "stuff they could find their letters on" is as far from the truth as humanly possible and it is unfair to say that. That had absolutely no bearing on the decision. It is quite easy to get these things now a days as evidenced by the plethora of websites offering these services. The F & M chapter also never asked KBG for a house as per F & M policy the college provides houses to all greek organizations. The chapter absolutely asked for assistance on a variety of matters, but a house was never asked for. Also as a side not, the National Dues paid to KBG are more expensive then then National dues the women of F & M pay to KD.

I would send you a PM, but it doesn't look like you have that option.

I served as the national advisor for the chapter, and in fact I'm pretty sure I remember meeting you during my chapter visit last October I believe it is. The truth of the matter is that yes, both of these items were repeatedly brought up to us. No, they were not the only concern, and no, I'm not trying to bash your women.

As far as disaffiliation, there are several steps that were never met and Jenna has not responded to contacts made by our secretary. As I said before, yes, I understand and respect the reasons for the break, but my problem is with the disrespect toward Kappa Beta Gamma in the refusal to follow our own protocol as well as the disrespect from NPC as mentioned before. Its these issues that I'm trying to address.

[nate2512]

Originally Posted by Katydid617

Also as a side not, the National Dues paid to KBG are more expensive then then National dues the women of F & M pay to KD.

Hmm...the guy in the fraternity got something right. Go Figure.

[vedette713]

Originally Posted by BootyKBG

The Nu chapter of KBG at Franklin and Marshall decided as active members that they wanted to affiliate with a panhellenic sorority. They had been in discussion about this with nationals on and off for maybe a year before they formally requested disaffiliation. Several years back our nationals was weak and supported by ONE active alumna who didn't ask for help until other former executive members stepped in. Since then we have continued to grow and strengthen as a national organization.

Because of this weak time period, said national alumna who was serving as sole board member with poor judgement suggested the possibility of a merger to the chapters during the annual convention. Our strongest chapters at that time took this back with them, dispite the fact that during that same convention an entirely new national board came on and began the revising process.

Nu initially began asking for items that we simply couldn't or wouldn't supply, such as buying them a house. We had 5 chapters with extremely low dues compared to many NPC sororities, and because of this that is something that constitutionally we just don't provide. After much discussion the chapter decided that buying "stuff they could find their letters on" was more important that honoring their history and the support that KBG had provided up til that time, including the efforts of re-recognition by campus.

BootyKBG, I do have a PM and I would love to talk about how this confusion with the us “asking for items [you] simply couldn’t or wouldn’t supply, such as buying a house” started because, with all due respect, that was never a reason for our disaffiliation. Here’s why:

(1) In Fall 2005, after the Tri-Sigma chapter on our campus closed, their landlord offered to rent us their (very, very nice) house. So we could have had a house, had we wanted it. We said no, because there simply wasn’t enough interest among sisters for it. I should point out that not all the Greek organizations on our campus have houses, and since we always had several sisters willing to lend apartments or houses for sorority activities, we never needed one.

(2) When we began disaffiliation talks with KBG national, we already knew the school was working to create a “Greek Row” where all the Greek organizations would be moving into houses owned by the college. Granted we didn’t know exactly when this would occur, but we knew it was in the near future. So we would have had no reason to ask you to buy us a house.

(3) By Fall 2007, when we were still in disaffiliation talks with KBG Nationals (which began Spring 2006, if anyone’s interested), we knew that we would have a house, through the school, in Fall 2008. So, again, there was no reason to ask you to buy us one.

(4) And finally … we just aren’t that shallow. And given what has been said about us on this thread, I will be explaining that. I’d just like to start by saying none of this is meant to insult BootyKBG or her board. I understand she’s very devoted to her organization and is working very hard for it. But, as she’s admitted, the previous administration … not so much.

Basically, each member of a KBG chapter is supposed to pay $80 a semester in membership dues. In return, the national organization says the chapter will receive annual visits from a member of national, leadership workshops, an updated website, a magazine, and the chapter’s president and national liaison go to an annual convention.

So we paid our dues. And the website hasn’t been updated since 2004 (I know they’re working on it, but the fact remains it’s been over four years), we’ve never seen a KBG magazine, the first visit a national representative ever made to this campus was this fall when we were trying to disaffiliate (not even to initiate our chapter — our founders went to them), and while convention did happen, unless “leadership workshops” refers specifically to what goes on at convention, we’ve never had them.

Additionally, we had complaints regarding the speed with which we received materials. For example, our bylaws are from 1998 (our chapter was founded in 2002) and, just speaking personally, I wrote a $140 check for a pin when I joined in Spring 2005. In Fall 2006, completely fed up, I asked that the check just be cancelled and put toward my dues because I seriously didn’t think I’d ever see the thing.

So we didn’t disaffiliate because we were asking KBG for extraneous things they couldn’t possibly provide us. We asked to disaffiliate because they weren’t providing us with what they said they would provide us with — but they were still taking our money. And whenever we asked, we were told “it’s coming, don’t worry, it’ll be fixed/up/here soon.” But it never was.

And once again, that’s not meant to insult BootyKBG or the current KBG nationals. And we certainly wish them the best of luck with their future colonizations and all future endeavors.