Kappa Beta Gamma/Kappa Delta

[texas*princess]

Originally Posted by ta kala

Ok, I am very invested in the women of Kappa Delta at Franklin & Marshall. Without going into too much detail (out of respect to those involved), I will say that these women are incredibly dedicated to Kappa Delta. If you knew how much time and effort they have put in to this endeavor (not just in the past month), you would see that.

Also, the founders of the local that preceded KBG originally wanted to be a NPC, but due to campus conditions, were unable to do so.

With that being said, the reason many of these women did not "join an NPC in the first place" is because they liked the women of KBG. Tri Sigma left in 2004, leaving just Chi Omega and KBG, until this past fall. So the majority of KD's members had a choice between ChiO and KBG and felt a closer connection to the KBG women.

I am not trying to put down KBG, but the women saw how ChiO operated and especially after APhi joined, they yearned for an organization that could provide them with the same resources that their Panhellenic sisters were receiving.


And they never "turned their badges in" because they never received them (at least none of the current collegiate members did).

Regardless of whether or not they have received their badges, I would venture to guess they took some kind of oath of loyalty to KBG.

If they felt a closer connection to the girls of KBG, why abandon that and make it into something it wasn't just because they wanted an org with more resources like the other sororities on campus? Or why join KBG in the first place if they "yearned" to be part of a group with better resources?

Or they could have waited it out, formed an interest group and get organized. It is possible that down the road their interest group could be picked up by a NPC.

It just doesn't seem right to join an National org just to leave it to join a bigger one.

[kddani]

Originally Posted by texas*princess

Regardless of whether or not they have received their badges, I would venture to guess they took some kind of oath of loyalty to KBG.

If they felt a closer connection to the girls of KBG, why abandon that and make it into something it wasn't just because they wanted an org with more resources like the other sororities on campus? Or why join KBG in the first place if they "yearned" to be part of a group with better resources?

Or they could have waited it out, formed an interest group and get organized. It is possible that down the road their interest group could be picked up by a NPC.

It just doesn't seem right to join an National org just to leave it to join a bigger one.

TP, do you have any knowledge or info about the ADPi chapter cited by oldu that had formerly been a KBG chapter?

[ta kala]

Originally Posted by texas*princess

Regardless of whether or not they have received their badges, I would venture to guess they took some kind of oath of loyalty to KBG.

If they felt a closer connection to the girls of KBG, why abandon that and make it into something it wasn't just because they wanted an org with more resources like the other sororities on campus? Or why join KBG in the first place if they "yearned" to be part of a group with better resources?

Or they could have waited it out, formed an interest group and get organized. It is possible that down the road their interest group could be picked up by a NPC.

It just doesn't seem right to join an National org just to leave it to join a bigger one.

When women go through recruitment, they often times look at the chapter members and not necessarily the organization. From their perspective, there is no difference between an NPC and another national group. And how many PNMs ask "So, do you have manuals and leadership conferences and alumnae advisors?" These women didn't know going in that KBG was unable to provide these.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by kddani

TP, do you have any knowledge or info about the ADPi chapter cited by oldu that had formerly been a KBG chapter?

Not TP but since I assume oldu meant the SLU chapter of ADPi, I'm familiar with the chapter and the fact that KBG used to be on SLU's campus, but I'd never heard that they were the same group. Their website is down so I can't page through the history anyway.

Thought I'd toss a SLU alum tidbit in there even if I don't know anything. (Note to oldu whoever you are, there is no "University of Saint Louis".)

[ladygreek]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

Thought I'd toss a SLU alum tidbit in there even if I don't know anything. (Note to oldu whoever you are, there is no "University of Saint Louis".)

I was like, when did it change it's name?

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by ladygreek

I was like, when did it change it's name?

Oh, yesterday, there was a press conference. That Biondi, you never know what he's going to do.

[oldu]

Sorry about changing the name of St. Louis University -- should have known better. The SLU chapter of Kappa Beta Gamma was the first to be installed after the original founders at Marquette decided to expand and become a national in 1947. In 1975 it withdrew and took the name Kappa Beta Phi. In 1989 it became a chapter of Alpha Delta Pi. That became the fourth name the group has had, as it was originally a local sorority founded in 1928 under the name Delta Epsilon Phi. (The source of the above is St. Louis University and Alpha Delta Pi historical records.)

As I stated earlier the latest change of affiliation from a small national to a larger and stronger one is certainly not the first, nor will it be the last. It has happened many times. At Kent State University SEVEN chapters of AES sororities all left their nationals over a period of a few years to become NPC chapters, most shopping for a new national while still operating as a chapter of their former national. I doubt that any of the AES national organizations were encouraging this action.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by oldu

Sorry about changing the name of St. Louis University -- should have known better. The SLU chapter of Kappa Beta Gamma was the first to be installed after the original founders at Marquette decided to expand and become a national in 1947. In 1975 it withdrew and took the name Kappa Beta Phi. In 1989 it became a chapter of Alpha Delta Pi. That became the fourth name the group has had, as it was originally a local sorority founded in 1928 under the name Delta Epsilon Phi. (The source of the above is St. Louis University and Alpha Delta Pi historical records.)

As I stated earlier the latest change of affiliation from a small national to a larger and stronger one is certainly not the first, nor will it be the last. It has happened many times. At Kent State University SEVEN chapters of AES sororities all left their nationals over a period of a few years to become NPC chapters, most shopping for a new national while still operating as a chapter of their former national. I doubt that any of the AES national organizations were encouraging this action.

So that situation doesn't really have anything to do with these because you're looking at a period of 14 years between withdrawal from KBG and affiliation with ADPi.

[texas*princess]

Originally Posted by ta kala

When women go through recruitment, they often times look at the chapter members and not necessarily the organization. From their perspective, there is no difference between an NPC and another national group. And how many PNMs ask "So, do you have manuals and leadership conferences and alumnae advisors?" These women didn't know going in that KBG was unable to provide these.

I’ve said it before, regardless of whether or not you agree with the process, they followed the rules.

I agree that most women will look at the current chapter membership, but being 18-20 yr olds, it also occurs to most women I know that rush to do some homework.

By the looks of KBG website, it's a little bit obvious what you'd be getting into. The org has only a handful of active chapters and "over one thousand" known alums.

1000 vs. the 140,000 or so that Chi O for example might have is a pretty big difference and would tell me that KBG probably does not have the kind of resources that an NPC would.

33girl - I realize that the girls at the time of KBG's founding there didn't have options, but by the looks of what you & others have said about the situation, it looks like they just chose KBG until something better could come along that went with the school's rules.

For those that asked, I am not familiar at all with the ADPi chapter that was a KBG chapter at one time... and even though it is my own sorority, I can't say that I am going to suddenly agree with it, because I still don't think it's right.

Like Senusret says, stuff like this opens up all kinds of cans of worms. i.e. what if there were an all-female chapter of a professional/philanthropic org that suddenly decided they wanted to be NPC? It's not fair for the organizations that are being absorbed.

I think one of the only reasons some people are OK with this is because NPC has rules that you can't be initated into two NPC groups so it's impossible for a chapter of a smaller NPC to decide they want to join a bigger NPC because they have "more resources".

[LPIDelta]

Originally Posted by texas*princess

By the looks of KBG website, it's a little bit obvious what you'd be getting into. The org has only a handful of active chapters and "over one thousand" known alums.

Well that, and the website hasn't been updated since 2004?

[nate2512]

Originally Posted by texas*princess

Regardless of whether or not they have received their badges, I would venture to guess they took some kind of oath of loyalty to KBG.

If they felt a closer connection to the girls of KBG, why abandon that and make it into something it wasn't just because they wanted an org with more resources like the other sororities on campus? Or why join KBG in the first place if they "yearned" to be part of a group with better resources?

Or they could have waited it out, formed an interest group and get organized. It is possible that down the road their interest group could be picked up by a NPC.

It just doesn't seem right to join an National org just to leave it to join a bigger one.

Maybe they felt that their nationals no longer correctly pursued the ideals and principles it was originally founded upon so they sought out an organization that did?

They could have dissolved went local and then entertained offers from NPC sororities, but if they were going to that anyway whats the point? We see stories on here a lot about how locals get absorbed into NPCs.

Also, what were the specifics of their own nationals ability to provide liability insurances, lucrative scholarships, and things of that such? If they are paying outrageous insurance and dues to the national and they aren't getting a great return on investment then they do kind of have a right to be pissed.

I am a guy and I am in a fraternity and don't understand all aspects of NPC and smaller nationals and I'm sure I'll get flamed and tarred and feathered for this but its a few things to think about.

[texas*princess]

Originally Posted by nate2512

Also, what were the specifics of their own nationals ability to provide liability insurances, lucrative scholarships, and things of that such? If they are paying outrageous insurance and dues to the national and they aren't getting a great return on investment then they do kind of have a right to be pissed.

I am a guy and I am in a fraternity and don't understand all aspects of NPC and smaller nationals and I'm sure I'll get flamed and tarred and feathered for this but its a few things to think about.

Their dues are $50 (which includes insurance). Ever heard the phrase "You get what you pay for?"

My dues for a professional GLO were much higher than that.

As a guy in a fraternity (NIC I am assuming?) would it be OK with you if a guy pledged a group, got initiated, then decided he thought your fraternity was way better so he dropped out and tried joining yours?

[vedette713]

Originally Posted by texas*princess

Their dues are $50 (which includes insurance). Ever heard the phrase "You get what you pay for?"

My dues for a professional GLO were much higher than that.

As a guy in a fraternity (NIC I am assuming?) would it be OK with you if a guy pledged a group, got initiated, then decided he thought your fraternity was way better so he dropped out and tried joining yours?

Hi texas*princess,

Absolutely no offense meant, but could I ask you where you got that number? Because as a soon-to-be alumna of the f&m chapter in question, I can tell you we paid $80 a semester, not $50 a year.

And while I recognize that many organizations have far higher dues, having just spent weeks up to my eyes in different Panhellenic sororities' extension materials, I know there are also groups that offer the experience for the same, or even a lower, dues. And — I'm guessing because they have larger memberships — the Panhellenic sororities are able to offer more extensive insurance coverage.

[ThetaDancer]

Originally Posted by vedette713

Hi texas*princess,

Absolutely no offense meant, but could I ask you where you got that number? Because as a soon-to-be alumna of the f&m chapter in question, I can tell you we paid $80 a semester, not $50 a year.

And while I recognize that many organizations have far higher dues, having just spent weeks up to my eyes in different Panhellenic sororities' extension materials, I know there are also groups that offer the experience for the same, or even a lower, dues. And — I'm guessing because they have larger memberships — the Panhellenic sororities are able to offer more extensive insurance coverage.

According to KBG's website, national dues are $50 per girl per semester.

I can't say for certain that it was t*p's source, but that's what I found.

[vedette713]

Originally Posted by ThetaDancer

According to KBG's website, national dues are $50 per girl per semester.

I can't say for certain that it was t*p's source, but that's what I found.

Hi ThetaDancer,

Thanks for the link! F&M's a mac-based campus, and the KBG website doesn't support macs (though I believe they're working on it), so that's the first time I've been able to see something besides the homepage. And I think you're right about it probably being t*p's source.

The site's a little out-of-date, though: For example, in addition to the former F&M chapter (Nu), the Epsilon and Mu chapter are inactive; the Xi chapter hasn't been added; and this is the first mention of scholarships and newsletters I've ever come across.

Obviously I've never been able to check this for myself, but my understanding is the site was last updated in 2004, which is probably where the confusion stems from, because our dues were definitely $80 a semester.