Can you be Christian and Greek?

[agzg]

Originally Posted by Kevin

I may be taking this wrong, but it seems as if he's making a lot of categorical racial statements regarding the slave master... let's just call us "the whites" which are just absurd. Devil's food cake:black::Angel's food cake: white and there's a racial causal link in the naming? Preposterous.

The constructs of dark=bad, light=good, and their racial implications cannot be lost on you.

Originally Posted by Kevin

Just following crass marketing concepts, race is certainly an aspect of marketing. Religion is marketed towards its consumers, so certainly it would be more appealing if we presented a black Jesus to a black audience and a viking looking Jesus to a Norse audience and so on. As to some vast cultural conspiracy of the whites to trample on the religious psyche of black folks? That may have been true in the past, which is why I say this is relevant in a historical context, but still being angry about it today? I would hope he'd have better things to do.

I don't know that white men presented Jesus as black to black people - do you? I've already talked about "The Curse of Ham," but given its prevalence in the justification for American slavery, I'm willing to hazard a guess that in most cases, he was not.

You'd be amazed at the things people have a hard time getting over, considering the economic and social inequality we're still trying (or not trying, as may be the case) to address today.

Originally Posted by Kevin

The question is fundamentally flawed. There is no such thing as some sort of monolithic set of Judeo-Christian values. Some folks are going to have what they consider to be their values and others will have other types of values. Who is to say agzg's concept of Christianity forbids her from joining a GLO?

Define what Judeo-Christian values are in the first place. Only then can a serious discussion ensue as to whether you can join a secret society.

--and if that language is so important, you best not eat shellfish lest we stone you.

I'm using "Judeo-Christian values" in the socially accepted construct here (one God, be a good person, etc.). I don't think that, for example, Evangelical Christians or Ultra-Orthodox Jews identify with the "Judeo-Christian values" construct as it's accepted by society at large.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by agzg

The constructs of dark=bad, light=good, and their racial implications cannot be lost on you.

Correlation =/= causation. White/light= good whereas dark/black = bad is a concept which goes back to ancient times in western culture. One would be hard pressed to find a smoking gun of a racial link.

How about a business being 'in the black'? Is that a slight against Native Americans since the opposite of being black is being in the red? Where does this silliness end?

I don't know that white men presented Jesus as black to black people - do you? I've already talked about "The Curse of Ham," but given its prevalence in the justification for American slavery, I'm willing to hazard a guess that in most cases, he was not.

No of course they didn't back then. As I said, religion was used as a tool of oppression. Jesus would have to be the color of the master, etc. I get all that. It was a long time ago though. At some point, it becomes less relevant as to now.

You'd be amazed at the things people have a hard time getting over, considering the economic and social inequality we're still trying (or not trying, as may be the case) to address today.

Continuing to bitch about it without suggesting anything reasonable is, as you put it, "not trying."

I'm using "Judeo-Christian values" in the socially accepted construct here (one God, be a good person, etc.). I don't think that, for example, Evangelical Christians or Ultra-Orthodox Jews identify with the "Judeo-Christian values" construct as it's accepted by society at large.

I think they're very different. Utra-Orthodox Jews and evangelical Christians, you'll have to admit are pretty far apart on a lot of things. Sure, they agree that for the most part killing, stealing and lying is bad, but I doubt we'll find much mainstream consensus that secret societies are either good or bad. Most folks probably don't think about it. I have a hard time thinking there's an all-powerful/all-knowing God who gives a damn whether I'm a Sigma Nu or not, although I think He'd approve.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Correlation =/= causation. White/light= good whereas dark/black = bad is a concept which goes back to ancient times in western culture. One would be hard pressed to find a smoking gun of a racial link.

How about a business being 'in the black'? Is that a slight against Native Americans since the opposite of being black is being in the red? Where does this silliness end?



No of course they didn't back then. As I said, religion was used as a tool of oppression. Jesus would have to be the color of the master, etc. I get all that. It was a long time ago though. At some point, it becomes less relevant as to now.



Continuing to bitch about it without suggesting anything reasonable is, as you put it, "not trying."

Is Kevin serious?

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Correlation =/= causation. White/light= good whereas dark/black = bad is a concept which goes back to ancient times in western culture. One would be hard pressed to find a smoking gun of a racial link.

Try looking in Darkest Africa.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

Try looking in Darkest Africa.

So by dark, you think they're talking about the skin color of the natives or about the fact that in American and European literature, Africa is seen as remote/mysterious/here be dragons?

To each his own. Agree to disagree.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by Kevin

So by dark, you think they're talking about the skin color of the natives or about the fact that in American and European literature, Africa is seen as remote/mysterious/here be dragons?

Yes. The two possibilities needn't be and aren't mutually exclusive, and terms like this can have layers of meaning and connotation, both to those who use them and those about whom they're used.