Can you be Christian and Greek?

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Correlation =/= causation. White/light= good whereas dark/black = bad is a concept which goes back to ancient times in western culture. One would be hard pressed to find a smoking gun of a racial link.

Try looking in Darkest Africa.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

Try looking in Darkest Africa.

So by dark, you think they're talking about the skin color of the natives or about the fact that in American and European literature, Africa is seen as remote/mysterious/here be dragons?

To each his own. Agree to disagree.

[DrPhil]

Speaking of Jewish Jesus:

My favorite hobby is telling Jews (by ethnicity and/or religion) around the world to get over antisemitism, the First Crusade, the Holocausts, and the different accounts of Judaism and Christianity. It has been over a thousand years since all of this stuff began. Surely Jews have had enough time to get over it or to learn how to handle overt and covert methods. Plus, Jews tend to be relatively socioeconomically well-off in some industrialized nations. What could there possibly be for Jews to think about or talk about? Thinking about and talking about this stuff is nothing more than a nonstop complaint and my nonJewish self will not allow it!!! I enjoy telling Jews to shut up about the history of all of this and to get over how there is an impact of these atrocities many years later. I appreciate the Jews who have been proactive in improving the conditions of Jews throughout the years. I wish "those other groups" could be like the Jews. My favorite Jews are the Jews for Jesus. We share shots of 1800 on Sunday mornings. This is especially fun when hanging out with Black Jews including those from Ethiopia. Fun times.

[Kevin]

Considering that the holocaust happened during the lifetimes of people currently alive, such an example wouldn't be exactly on-point.

And to be fair, the Holocaust was quite similar to slavery in its barbaric nature and for the most part, the Jewish folks have moved on. Do they remember? Yes. Is it an outrage? Sure.

Do they kvetch about the chains and gas chambers holding them back today? Not so much.

My earlier comments aren't aimed at all black people in the world. Just the hyperbolic fella who kept referring to slave masters and chains and whatnot.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Considering that the holocaust happened during the lifetimes of people currently alive, such an example wouldn't be exactly on-point.

Since you missed my sarcasm, my post says "antisemitism, the First Crusade, the Holocausts, and the different accounts of Judaism and Christianity." The collective began over a thousand years ago.

As a lesson to Kevin, the Holocaust happened during the lifetimes of some Jews who are still alive just as remnants of the TransAtlantic Slave Trade like Jim Crow Laws, racial hangings, Colored only drinking fountains, and the 1960s Civil Rights Movement happened during the lifetimes of many people of the African Diaspora who are still alive.

I'm ignoring that other dumb stuff you typed about Jews because you are ignorant.

Originally Posted by Kevin

My earlier comments aren't aimed at all black people in the world. Just the hyperbolic fella who kept referring to slave masters and chains and whatnot.

No, I will not allow you to pretend that you were only blasting Andre Turner's perspective and the sometimes harsh wording of his posts. Your comments are directly and indirectly aimed at people of the African Diaspora who think about, talk about, and conduct research and community activism for the types of things that Andre Turner said in his posts. That includes me and for that I say "FUCK YOU."

Noncoincidentally, there are nonBlack people around the world who think about, talk about, and conduct research and community activism regarding such topics and they are rarely told to shut up and get over it. Most of the research and literature on the history of Christianity in the African Diaspora, the TransAtlantic Slave Trade, and images of "black" and "white" are conducted by white people. White privilege allows those white researchers, white writers, and white community activitists to be considered educated, neutral, and rational observers rather than Blackass complainers. That fact supports much of what Andre Turner is saying.

[agzg]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Considering that the holocaust happened during the lifetimes of people currently alive, such an example wouldn't be exactly on-point.

And to be fair, the Holocaust was quite similar to slavery in its barbaric nature and for the most part, the Jewish folks have moved on. Do they remember? Yes. Is it an outrage? Sure.

Do they kvetch about the chains and gas chambers holding them back today? Not so much.

My earlier comments aren't aimed at all black people in the world. Just the hyperbolic fella who kept referring to slave masters and chains and whatnot.

QFP because this is the stupidest shit I've read on here in a long time.

I'm sorry, I forgot to add my hashtags:
#shrill
#establishedtrackrecordofvitriol

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by Kevin

So by dark, you think they're talking about the skin color of the natives or about the fact that in American and European literature, Africa is seen as remote/mysterious/here be dragons?

Yes. The two possibilities needn't be and aren't mutually exclusive, and terms like this can have layers of meaning and connotation, both to those who use them and those about whom they're used.

[Andre Turner]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Only 4 centuries? Pick up a history book and look up European feudalism. Somehow those former medieval serfs (slaves) are now perfectly upwardly mobile and arguably more free than we are in the U.S. in many respects. The ancient world existed for far more than 400 years and slavery right along with it. Somehow, the ancestors of slaves weren't whining in the forums about some sort of metaphorical servitude still being imposed on them.

Sure, black folks in the U.S. have some serious socioeconomic challenges and yes, discrimination happens. But is it slavery? Hell no. Do you have less freedom than I do? I don't see it. Cite facts, not silly metaphors.

What biological, "economical" [sic], psychological, sociological, religious slavery is being imposed on you right now? Did "the whites" tell you how you have to think, pray, spend your money, etc. as some monolithic and malevolent entity? Or do you just not like the culture you were born into?

It is estimated that at the beginning of the 19th century, 75% of the world's population existed under some form of bondage. Slavery wasn't abolished in Europe until the mid 1800s. Somehow their former slaves' progeny have actually gotten over it.

Slavery was a horrible thing and a blight on this nation's history, but aside from some metaphors, what freedoms are you lacking today?

The more you post, the more you paint yourself to look even more arrogant and ignorant, just like your white brothers. I cannot expect you to believe that we are still enslaved, because you and your people are not oppressed. You now, once again, are spreading your lies, trying to place yourselves in the same boat we are in and have been in for over four centuries, -bondage, which is now within our minds. The body is only going to mimic what the mind is filled with. Our minds are full of over 400 years of what I have already mentioned, therefore we are still enslaved. Is your mind filled with this same false teaching? No it is not, therefore I don't expect you to understand, or even care, which explains this post and your "get over it" remark from your previous post.

I also see what you are trying to do here, although I refuse to buy any of it. If I was a white man like you, living in this Day of Judgment, with an entire planet full of red, yellow, brown, and black people that are angry as hell at me for my many crimes and atrocities committed against them for thousands of years, I'd all of a sudden be friendly too, trying to place myself in the same boat they are in, like you have done here. What I am saying here is white folks will openly accept black folks as long as we are what your people want us to be. Slaves! As long as we are watered-down, weak-minded, submissive, butt-kissing, boot-licking, fiddle-playing, foot-shuffling, shoe-shining, tongue-biting (which I refuse to do) porch-dancing, bent-over, house-negro type of colored person, etc. white folks will bend over backwards for an Uncle Tom like this.

Ever since we have been on the blood-soaked soil of America, we have been catching all types of hell from the hell raiser (your people). Yes, we have caught hell from these devils, but we have kept the hell that we have caught. So as a result, we have become hell raisers ourselves, second only to "The Hell Raiser". I believe that we should give this hell back, to whom it is that we caught it from, - your people.

We were not these "niggas", bitches, punks, and hoes (words that we call ourselves today, that we have learned from your people through four centuries of false teaching) we are today, before we were kidnapped to this country. This mentality and character does not belong to us, so I believe that we should give it back. We should return it to the sender, -your people. We need to:

Give the white man back his body-poisoning addictive drinks. Return to sender.

Give the white man back his cancer-causing cigarettes. Return to sender.

Give the white man back his death plaguing crack-pipe. Return to sender.

Give the white man back his needle sticking heroin drug. Return to sender.

Give the white man back his blue-eyed contact lenses. Return to sender.

Give the white man back his hair-straitening chemicals. Return to sender.

Give the white man back his lying, thieving, deceiving, whole criminal mind. Return to sender.

Give the white man back his disrespecting, chauvinistic, attitude toward women. Return to sender.

Give the white man back his greedy, cut-throat, materialistic, sick mentality. Return to sender.

Give the white man back his egotistical, insecure, jealous and envious weak frame of mind. Return to sender.

Give the white man back his death-to-go fast-food diet. Return to sender.

Give the white man back his blue-eyed, blonde, bimbo, brain-less, butt-less, skinny, little weak white woman. You can have that back with a quickness. PLEASE RETURN TO SENDER.

I believe we need to give all this madness back to the white man. Give all this hell back to whom it is that we have caught it from. Just because we caught it doesn't mean we should keep it. Because we have chosen to keep it, keeps us in slavery and bondage. We need to give back his loose low-life morals, because they are not ours. But, accept only what is our own and be only what is ourselves. We need to accept our own divine righteous morals and be our own righteous divine black selves. And anything other than that, give it back. But this is not possible, because this is what your people are subconsciously afraid of.

Any time someone has to spend 90% of their time (by any means necessary) trying to hold another person down, he fears that person. So yes, WE are very much so STILL in slavery, lacking the same freedom you have TODAY, and living the lies your people have taught us. Why are there so many black people in prison? Why are more black people put to death than white people? Why are there more black on black crimes in this country than any other race of people? Why are there more black people living in poverty than white people? Why are there so many fatherless black children in this country? Why are there more black families that are broken up than white families? Why are Amercians living on reservations? I don't refer to them as "Native Amercians" because they are not. And then your people have the balls to refer to other folks as illegal aliens.

No, we DO NOT have the same freedom that your people have TODAY. You are arrogant and ignorant, so I do not expect you to care or understand how we are enslaved to this very day.

[Kevin]

^Really? Y'all support that hot mess? We give the boot to whatshisface who comes over here spouting his white supremacist crap, but this is okay?

The fact is, there's never going to be this race war you seem to want. That's just insane.

No one is holding you back but yourself.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Andre Turner

The more you post, the more you paint yourself to look even more arrogant and ignorant, just like your white brothers. I cannot expect you to believe that we are still enslaved, because you and your people are not oppressed. You now, once again, are spreading your lies, trying to place yourselves in the same boat we are in and have been in for over four centuries, -bondage, which is now within our minds. The body is only going to mimic what the mind is filled with. Our minds are full of over 400 years of what I have already mentioned, therefore we are still enslaved. Is your mind filled with this same false teaching? No it is not, therefore I don't expect you to understand, or even care, which explains this post and your "get over it" remark from your previous post.

I also see what you are trying to do here, although I refuse to buy any of it. If I was a white man like you, living in this Day of Judgment, with an entire planet full of red, yellow, brown, and black people that are angry as hell at me for my many crimes and atrocities committed against them for thousands of years, I'd all of a sudden be friendly too, trying to place myself in the same boat they are in, like you have done here. What I am saying here is white folks will openly accept black folks as long as we are what your people want us to be. Slaves! As long as we are watered-down, weak-minded, submissive, butt-kissing, boot-licking, fiddle-playing, foot-shuffling, shoe-shining, tongue-biting (which I refuse to do) porch-dancing, bent-over, house-negro type of colored person, etc. white folks will bend over backwards for an Uncle Tom like this.

Ever since we have been on the blood-soaked soil of America, we have been catching all types of hell from the hell raiser (your people). Yes, we have caught hell from these devils, but we have kept the hell that we have caught. So as a result, we have become hell raisers ourselves, second only to "The Hell Raiser". I believe that we should give this hell back, to whom it is that we caught it from, - your people.

We were not these "niggas", bitches, punks, and hoes (words that we call ourselves today, that we have learned from your people through four centuries of false teaching) we are today, before we were kidnapped to this country. This mentality and character does not belong to us, so I believe that we should give it back. We should return it to the sender, -your people. We need to:

Give the white man back his body-poisoning addictive drinks. Return to sender.

Give the white man back his cancer-causing cigarettes. Return to sender.

Give the white man back his death plaguing crack-pipe. Return to sender.

Give the white man back his needle sticking heroin drug. Return to sender.

Give the white man back his blue-eyed contact lenses. Return to sender.

Give the white man back his hair-straitening chemicals. Return to sender.

Give the white man back his lying, thieving, deceiving, whole criminal mind. Return to sender.

Give the white man back his disrespecting, chauvinistic, attitude toward women. Return to sender.

Give the white man back his greedy, cut-throat, materialistic, sick mentality. Return to sender.

Give the white man back his egotistical, insecure, jealous and envious weak frame of mind. Return to sender.

Give the white man back his death-to-go fast-food diet. Return to sender.

Give the white man back his blue-eyed, blonde, bimbo, brain-less, butt-less, skinny, little weak white woman. You can have that back with a quickness. PLEASE RETURN TO SENDER.

I believe we need to give all this madness back to the white man. Give all this hell back to whom it is that we have caught it from. Just because we caught it doesn't mean we should keep it. Because we have chosen to keep it, keeps us in slavery and bondage. We need to give back his loose low-life morals, because they are not ours. But, accept only what is our own and be only what is ourselves. We need to accept our own divine righteous morals and be our own righteous divine black selves. And anything other than that, give it back. But this is not possible, because this is what your people are subconsciously afraid of.

Any time someone has to spend 90% of their time (by any means necessary) trying to hold another person down, he fears that person. So yes, WE are very much so STILL in slavery, lacking the same freedom you have TODAY, and living the lies your people have taught us. Why are there so many black people in prison? Why are more black people put to death than white people? Why are there more black on black crimes in this country than any other race of people? Why are there more black people living in poverty than white people? Why are there so many fatherless black children in this country? Why are there more black families that are broken up than white families? Why are Amercians living on reservations? I don't refer to them as "Native Amercians" because they are not. And then your people have the balls to refer to other folks as illegal aliens.

No, we DO NOT have the same freedom that your people have TODAY. You are arrogant and ignorant, so I do not expect you to care or understand how we are enslaved to this very day.

I agree---minus some of the wording.

For the record, there is more intraracial crime than interracial crime for every race and ethnicity. The ranking of incidents and rates aside, violent crime is more likely to be white-on-white, Black-on-Black, etc. This is an important reminder because most people do not read data to know whether there are more Black-on-Black crimes than white-on-white crimes. They simply see images and say that Black people are committing crimes against each other as though Black people are the only people who have a higher rate of victimization towards the people with whom they have the greatest access and opportunities for crime in racially, ethnically, culturally, and socioeconomically segregated societies like the United States of America.

And Kevin's posts are definitely arrogant and ignorant.

[naraht]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Considering that the holocaust happened during the lifetimes of people currently alive, such an example wouldn't be exactly on-point.

And to be fair, the Holocaust was quite similar to slavery in its barbaric nature and for the most part, the Jewish folks have moved on. Do they remember? Yes. Is it an outrage? Sure.

Do they kvetch about the chains and gas chambers holding them back today? Not so much.

My earlier comments aren't aimed at all black people in the world. Just the hyperbolic fella who kept referring to slave masters and chains and whatnot.

It will be interesting to see how this changes in the next 20 years or so, since the number of those who were actually in the camps that are still alive is falling quickly and those who were guards or in other ways responsible is falling even more quickly. (since there are survivors who were under age 18 in the camps, but very unlikely to be any guards that were so)

[cheerfulgreek]

I have a question for Andre Turner.

I read some of your comments, and I don't disagree with you -I mean, with what African Americans have been through and still continue to go through not only in this country, but other parts of the world. However, based on what I read, I just think our spiritual views are different. I'm not saying that yours are wrong, they just seem different. It's just that I believe that God is spirit which encompasses all genders and races. In Him, there is no woman or man, slave or free, Greek or Jew. I just believe He is the Giver, Sustainer, and empowering Force of life. I just don't believe it to be possible to construct and maintain a life of any great quality without Him as the foundation.

I mean, no one is an island. God created us to connect with others, and I just don't believe the race of those people we choose to connect with matters, but the upbringing and character does. I guess I'm just one of those who believes that only in having a relationship with God can we have great relationships with ourselves and others. It's just that your life will work only as well as the lives you surround yourself with, regardless of race or gender. I don't disagree with you, but do you believe in the vision that Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. had and shared about his vision of what this country should be like when it comes to race? You don't think we're there, or making progress to some degree? I'm not arguing your points because they are valid, and I agree with most of them, I just asked that question because I'm curious to know. That's all.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by naraht

It will be interesting to see how this changes in the next 20 years or so....

To see how what changes? Do you agree with Kevin's claims?

If Kevin has not already done so, I urge Kevin to read Ricky Sherover-Marcuse's works including the "A Working Perspective on Jewish Liberation." Jews are not monolithic. There are Jews who share Sherover-Marcuse's sentiment in 2012. There are Jews who talk about the present day impact of past events and current events that impact Jewish communities around the world. There are Jews who belong to organizations so that none of this will ever be forgotten. There are Jews who are angry as hell. There are Jews who make it clear that although some Jews identify as being of the white diaspora and benefitting from white privilege in certain contexts, there are still forms of Jewish oppression around the world. There are Holocaust museums that receive a lot of guests whereas I have had people tell me that museums dedicated to the TransAtlantic Slave Trade, Jim Crow, and the 1960s Civil Rights Movement(s) are no longer necessary. People (especially outsiders) cannot pick and choose which of these struggles have present day significance and who needs to get over the past, remnants of the past, and the present.

A common misconception that Kevin apparently shares is that racial, ethnic, cultural, or religious minority groups either spend 100% of their time thinking about, talking about, and being angry over it all or they spend 0% of their time thinking about, talking about, and being angry over it all. There is a middle ground. Most members of minority groups do not feel oppressed 100% of the time. Most members of minority groups do not believe that everything that happens is a result of oppression. Andre Turner has said nothing that would lead me to believe that he thinks people of the African Diaspora have absolutely no free will and 100% of their lives are a result of past and present inequalities. Andre Turner's colorful and sometimes exaggerated wording is not to be confused with a weakness in the larger point that he and other people are making.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by Kevin

^Really? Y'all support that hot mess? We give the boot to whatshisface who comes over here spouting his white supremacist crap, but this is okay?

Speaking for myself, please don't confuse my thinking that your responses show a great deal of presumption and ignorance with agreeing with every single thing Andre Turner has said.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

Speaking for myself, please don't confuse my thinking that your responses show a great deal of presumption and ignorance with agreeing with every single thing Andre Turner has said.

So specifically, what do you disagree with?