Mystery New Members on Bid Day

[Splash]

Just 1 user name and 4 recruitments during my collegiate experience.

And I agree, but just because a girl has been cut does not mean she doesn't meet the requirements of the sorority. At all.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by Splash

Just 1 user name and 4 recruitments during my collegiate experience.

And I agree, but just because a girl has been cut does not mean she doesn't meet the requirements of the sorority. At all.

Once again, you're not understanding what I'm saying AT ALL. I don't mean whether she is "fit" for membership, or if she embodies the creed or whatever. I am talking about HOW. PEOPLE. VOTED.

Originally Posted by Titchou

It depends on how strict the policies are. And that's where we're getting into MS rules of individual groups. Suppose the group does final votes earlier than others...but then they have to release some they voted "yes" on due to numbers allowed to invite. So Susie gets released even though they voted to pledge her. Then, the numbers game catches up with the chapter and they have an open slot and Susie, voila!, is still available at bid matching. Can the adviser put her on the list? I would say yes...and then they wind up with someone who wasn't at pref showing up on Bid Day. It can happen. And has...

Yes. This.

[SWTXBelle]

Treading carefully - especially with RFM, it would be possible for a chapter to vote for a woman who was not invited back because of numbers.

Back in the day, it was possible for chapters to offer snap bids to women who had not accepted a pref invitation but who the chapter wanted. In that case, although the members might have been a bit surprised because they were not at pref, the chapter DID want them and HAD voted for them. (Like today's flex lists).

Unless you have worked as an alumnae with a chapter during recruitment you probably don't fully understand how the process works - but any alumna who abuses her position to manipulate membership selection should be immediately removed from her position, imho.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

Unless you have worked as an alumnae with a chapter during recruitment you probably don't fully understand how the process works - but any alumna who abuses her position to manipulate membership selection should be immediately removed from her position, imho.

Agreed. I have worked with the alumnae as an active and I agree with what you're saying in the rest of your post.

And yet, I do not think you can revoke the girls bid (and yes, revoke, she received a card/note/letter/whatever, she has a bid however it was obtained.) Because she received a bid through ABC's screwup/fraud/whatever she may have not received a bid to another org, there is no way to 'fix' the situation that does not screw over the only innocent party involved.

Since MS is up to the chapter, there are not 'do-overs' because of something unethical that occurred in the chapter. As far as the campus panhel is concerned, that girl received a bid and is a member. There is no other way to handle it that wouldn't open the system up to more abuse. There are no 'take-backs' on the bid list.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

Because she received a bid through ABC's screwup/fraud/whatever she may have not received a bid to another org, there is no way to 'fix' the situation that does not screw over the only innocent party involved.

If a faux-bid from group #1 did indeed prevent her from getting a bid to group #2, and group #2 had her on their bid list, give her a bid to group #2 (even if it overrides quota or total). That fixes her situation - she has a bid from a group who truly wanted her as a group - and shows group #1 how dumb it is to pull this crap (i.e. another sorority gets to take more than allowed because you are jagoffs). Again, this is all treading on MS and really depends upon how long "things" are kept, to verify what happened.

Can we say that it's probably a good idea for the WHOLE chapter to see a list of who's showing up at bid day before it begins and before women are notified? Even regardless of stuff like this...it's probably best for the whole chapter to know in advance that Ultimate Rush Crush Of Everyone picked another sorority instead of yours, instead of it having to "trickle through" the bid day festivities.

[carnation]

I'm trying to picture what it's like for the sororities with the 70+ new member classes. At first, hardly anyone realizes who every girl is. At some point when "mystery members" show up, though, someone must realize, "Hey, wait a minute, we cut her 2 days ago."

BTW, with the mystery pledges I'm talking about, no one knew--or would admit to knowing--how it happened. I suppose people blamed the computers.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by 33girl

If a faux-bid from group #1 did indeed prevent her from getting a bid to group #2, and group #2 had her on their bid list, give her a bid to group #2 (even if it overrides quota or total). That fixes her situation - she has a bid from a group who truly wanted her as a group - and shows group #1 how dumb it is to pull this crap (i.e. another sorority gets to take more than allowed because you are jagoffs). Again, this is all treading on MS and really depends upon how long "things" are kept, to verify what happened.

Can we say that it's probably a good idea for the WHOLE chapter to see a list of who's showing up at bid day before it begins and before women are notified? Even regardless of stuff like this...it's probably best for the whole chapter to know in advance that Ultimate Rush Crush Of Everyone picked another sorority instead of yours, instead of it having to "trickle through" the bid day festivities.

Because MS is confidential there's no way to 'verify' that it was a mistake, all panhel gets is the bidlist. And that's what they go on. As far as Suzy knows, she was wanted by ABC, and the chapter should in fact treat her that way. How in the world are you going to figure out whose chapter she should go to otherwise? What if ABC was number one on her bidlist or the only one on her bidlist? There is no way to 'fix' things that doesn't punish the PNM.

Reasons the whole chapter should see the list:
To know who's coming and who your assigned NM is for the event and to glee over everything

Reasons the whole chapter should not police the list: because that's what advisors and recruitment chairs are for.


/has a feeling there's more to this 'occurence' than meets the eye
//and that it's really incredibly rare in the first place.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

Because MS is confidential there's no way to 'verify' that it was a mistake, all panhel gets is the bidlist. And that's what they go on. As far as Suzy knows, she was wanted by ABC, and the chapter should in fact treat her that way. How in the world are you going to figure out whose chapter she should go to otherwise? What if ABC was number one on her bidlist or the only one on her bidlist? There is no way to 'fix' things that doesn't punish the PNM.

Again, this really depends on whether it's "why, there's Sweetiepie Suzie who we had to cut because of RFM, in our letters. Huh." or "why, there's Evil Edna who the GA and the quota obsessed alum/advisor begged us to invite back after we cut her, but we didn't, in our letters. Grrrr." Carnation's OP was worded to make me believe she was talking about the latter example.

I would wager that the SSs end up sticking around, but the EEs probably get the hint and quit before initiation, and then have to wait a year. That's too bad, because one group's Evil Edna could be another group's Excellent Edna.

Originally Posted by Drolefille

Reasons the whole chapter should see the list:
To know who's coming and who your assigned NM is for the event and to glee over everything

Reasons the whole chapter should not police the list: because that's what advisors and recruitment chairs are for.

The effectiveness/impartiality/knowledge of these persons is often greatly exaggerated. Some chapters are lucky, some aren't, often through no fault of their own. Some chapters feel blessed if they have an advisor who shows up at one meeting a year, let alone has a clue what's going on with rush. Some chapters have a rush chair who has An Agenda and could care less about the wishes of her sisters.

Originally Posted by Drolefille

/has a feeling there's more to this 'occurence' than meets the eye
//and that it's really incredibly rare in the first place.

I hope.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Can we say that it's probably a good idea for the WHOLE chapter to see a list of who's showing up at bid day before it begins and before women are notified? Even regardless of stuff like this...it's probably best for the whole chapter to know in advance that Ultimate Rush Crush Of Everyone picked another sorority instead of yours, instead of it having to "trickle through" the bid day festivities.

We got bid lists around 8am, and bids went out around 2pm. That said, I can't imagine anyone but the president, recruitment chair, or reference/computer chair noticing that someone was on there who shouldn't be.

[SWTXBelle]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

Agreed. I have worked with the alumnae as an active and I agree with what you're saying in the rest of your post.

And yet, I do not think you can revoke the girls bid (and yes, revoke, she received a card/note/letter/whatever, she has a bid however it was obtained.) Because she received a bid through ABC's screwup/fraud/whatever she may have not received a bid to another org, there is no way to 'fix' the situation that does not screw over the only innocent party involved.

Since MS is up to the chapter, there are not 'do-overs' because of something unethical that occurred in the chapter. As far as the campus panhel is concerned, that girl received a bid and is a member. There is no other way to handle it that wouldn't open the system up to more abuse. There are no 'take-backs' on the bid list.

Oh, I wouldn't revoke the bid (unless she was an axe murderer or something) - as you point out, there's just no good way to remedy the situation without hurting the new member.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

Oh, I wouldn't revoke the bid (unless she was an axe murderer or something) - as you point out, there's just no good way to remedy the situation without hurting the new member.

Yeah I didn't see you doing that it was a general response.

Odds are she isn't unqualified to be a member, just not a good fit for the chapter, or just didn't do well at that chapter's events. None of that justifies dropping her, or trying to reassign her, and frankly you probably don't want to let her know she was a mistake.

New members/outsiders do not see the sausage making that is MS and bid matching for a reason.

[SWTXBelle]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

New members/outsiders do not see the sausage making that is MS and bid matching for a reason.

TRUTH.

[Splash]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Once again, you're not understanding what I'm saying AT ALL. I don't mean whether she is "fit" for membership, or if she embodies the creed or whatever. I am talking about HOW. PEOPLE. VOTED.

I understand you completely. Her getting a bid IS a mistake. I know that. I understand the chapter did not vote to extend her a bid. I get that. You said she shouldn't get a bid because she didn't fit the requirements, not because she wasn't voted upon. I agree with the first part, and not the second part in regards to this situation.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by Splash

I understand you completely. Her getting a bid IS a mistake. I know that. I understand the chapter did not vote to extend her a bid. I get that. You said she shouldn't get a bid because she didn't fit the requirements, not because she wasn't voted upon. I agree with the first part, and not the second part in regards to this situation.

I was using the word "requirements" to avoid getting too precise/technical about MS. Since you STILL don't get it, I'll spell it out: a PNM receiving a certain minimum score during MS is a REQUIREMENT to receive a bid.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by 33girl

I was using the word "requirements" to avoid getting too precise/technical about MS. Since you STILL don't get it, I'll spell it out: a PNM receiving a certain minimum score during MS is a REQUIREMENT to receive a bid.

The bid was received.
There's your problem. Chapters are responsible for policing their bidlist, but once it is sent, it is considered accurate. There are numerous reasons for why this is a necessary way to handle things, there are not takebacks, redos, whoopsydaisies, or my bads.

Her name's on the bidlist, congratulations you have a marvelous new member.