NPC adding new council members--do you think it could/will happen?

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by sigmadiva

I'm not saying that my approach should apply to everyone else, but I think people are taking it that way. Probably because I am the only one who has expressed my view on this subject in this thread.

No, for me it was because that's how you said it. You attempted to state definitively that "your book" says that homosexuality is a sin. I'm pretty sure you and I own the same Book. So, you aren't just making a statement about your own viewpoint, you are saying that it is there for all knowing eyes to see and accept.

As a fellow Christian, and someone who loves different opinions because they make the world interesting, I would never say believing that homosexuality is a sin is automatically bigoted unless that means that people can't disapprove of anything without automatically being a bigot. All I'm saying is that you can use your religion and the book to support your perceptions without implying that you are upholding a universal Christian TRUTH that has not been the least bit influenced by human interpretations and societal norms and values. Or, you can keep implying that (as most of my family and friends do) but be open to others' responses to your expressed viewpoints. The world is your oyster.

Originally Posted by sigmadiva

I'm saying that I personally draw the line at gay marriage. If gay couples want to adopt kids (which I have come to accept over the years), leave their benefits to their SO, and not be discriminated against because they are gay, I get that.

I respect your viewpoint and there are members of the GLBT community who agree with you for a number of reasons including religion. That's why there isn't just ONE approach to this topic.

The issue with institutional and structural discrimination is not bigotry. People can think and feel whatever the hell they like. They can even express those opinions as long as they are as tolerant of people's responses to their viewpoints. The issue with institutional and structural discrimination is ensuring that groups are not excluded on the basis of such viewpoints. Think whatever you want and base it on whatever you want, but "get out of the way" so that others can live their lives how they choose as long as it is in accordance to the laws of the land.

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Think whatever you want and base it on whatever you want, but "get out of the way" so that others can live their lives how they choose as long as it is in accordance to the laws of the land.

This is what makes me LOL about those who are bigoted against gays and feel that gay marriage will somehow erode the institution of marriage altogether. I don't know how much more MY life or MY personal relationships would change if gays were allowed to get married--I'd probably have a lot more weddings to attend, but that's about it.

But, now that I think about it, more weddings would break me! NO GAY MARRIAGE BECAUSE I AM TIRED OF BUYING PRESENTS FROM CRATE AND BARREL.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

This is what makes me LOL about those who are bigoted against gays and feel that gay marriage will somehow erode the institution of marriage altogether. I don't know how much more MY life or MY personal relationships would change if gays were allowed to get married--I'd probably have a lot more weddings to attend, but that's about it.

But, now that I think about it, more weddings would break me! NO GAY MARRIAGE BECAUSE I AM TIRED OF BUYING PRESENTS FROM CRATE AND BARREL.

LOL.

Well, the lives of others do impact ours either immediately or over time. Across societies, norms, values, and laws have changed over time and these societies have changed with them (as either the direct cause of the change or a correlate of the change). Whether the change is perceived as positive or negative, there is change.

When I say "get out of the way," I'm not implying that people have no vested interest in what happens in a larger sense and that what happens has no impact on anyone beyond the actual actors.

[exlurker]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

. . . But, now that I think about it, more weddings would break me! NO GAY MARRIAGE BECAUSE I AM TIRED OF BUYING PRESENTS FROM CRATE AND BARREL.

ITA, plus Williams-Sonoma.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

But, now that I think about it, more weddings would break me! NO GAY MARRIAGE BECAUSE I AM TIRED OF BUYING PRESENTS FROM CRATE AND BARREL.

Civil Unions can be had in Illinois beginning July 1. My family of divorce lawyers can't wait!

[33girl]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

But, now that I think about it, more weddings would break me! NO GAY MARRIAGE BECAUSE I AM TIRED OF BUYING PRESENTS FROM CRATE AND BARREL.

LMAO. I asked once in my facebook status if anyone had ever bought their furniture and one of my friends responded "of course I have, I'm a gay man, duh."

[sigmadiva]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

No, because that's how you said it. You attempted to state definitively that "your book" says that homosexuality is a sin. I'm pretty sure you and I own the same Book. So, you aren't just making a statement about your own viewpoint, you are saying that it is there for all knowing eyes to see and accept.

I made a statement based on what I've read in the Bible. Maybe we read different versions of the Bible, because they are out there.

As a fellow Christian, and someone who loves different opinions because they make the world interesting, I would never say believing that homosexuality is a sin is automatically bigoted unless that means that people can't disapprove of anything without automatically being a bigot. All I'm saying is that you can use your religion and the book to support your perceptions without implying that you are upholding a universal Christian TRUTH that has not been the least bit influenced by human interpretations and societal norms and values. Or, you can keep implying that (as most of my family and friends do) but be open to others' responses to your expressed viewpoints. The world is your oyster.

And we all understand TRUTH differently. I'm expressing the TRUTH as I understand it. You may have a different spin on it. That is okay.

The issue with institutional and structural discrimination is not bigotry. People can think and feel whatever the hell they like. They can even express those opinions as long as they are as tolerant of people's responses to their viewpoints. The issue with institutional and structural discrimination is ensuring that groups are not excluded on the basis of such viewpoints. Think whatever you want and base it on whatever you want, but "get out of the way" so that others can live their lives how they choose as long as it is in accordance to the laws of the land.

I agree.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by sigmadiva

I made a statement based on what I've read in the Bible. Maybe we read different versions of the Bible, because they are out there.

LOL. You're going with that, eh?

Originally Posted by sigmadiva

And we all understand TRUTH differently. I'm expressing the TRUTH as I understand it. You may have a different spin on it. That is okay.

About time you acknowledged the bolded. And don't label my interpretation and understanding of Scripture as a "spin." Unless you consider yours a "spin" which is counter to everything you've stated (until you admitted it is your understanding of your readings).

And of course it is okay. I certainly didn't think I was headed to hell nor did I think you were headed to hell based on your different interpretation.

[sigmadiva]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

LOL. You're going with that, eh?



About time you acknowledged the bolded. And don't label my interpretation and understanding of Scripture as a "spin." Unless you consider yours a "spin" which is counter to everything you've stated (until you admitted it is your understanding of your readings).

And of course it is okay. I certainly didn't think I was headed to hell nor did I think you were headed to hell based on your different interpretation.

Now you seem to be getting defensive. So I will stop.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by sigmadiva

Now you seem to be getting defensive. So I will stop.

You could have stopped typing about this without attempting to put the onus on me. You know damn better than that.