Gay Emory Student Dragged From Frat Party

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by Alumiyum

I didn't mean to imply it's ok to kick someone's ass just because they're being annoying, but I was just saying it seems premature to assume it was a hate crime, when it seems to really be a bunch of guys getting offended and crossing the line from assholery into criminal behavior. Should they be punished? Of course, and they should be regardless of who the victim is as there was no reason to assault him.

It would be nice if they'd get over themselves and let go of obvious prejudices, but I doubt they will.

I don't believe anyone used the words "hate crime" here. You seemed to be excusing it on the grounds that it was not 'solely" a gay bashing. And blaming the victim, which is, you know, shitty.

[Alumiyum]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

I don't believe anyone used the words "hate crime" here. You seemed to be excusing it on the grounds that it was not 'solely" a gay bashing. And blaming the victim, which is, you know, shitty.

Nope. I haven't even come close to implying that what they did was ok and have in very clear black and white said it wasn't. Nor have I blamed the victim for a thing. As I said in the post you quoted.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by Alumiyum

Nope. I haven't even come close to implying that what they did was ok and have in very clear black and white said it wasn't. Nor have I blamed the victim for a thing. As I said in the post you quoted.

No, you said you didn't mean to. But what you previously said was:

I'm the first person to forget my manners and preach to homophobes, but I have to agree with you here. [That he should have used common sense] Of course, if it was solely a gay bashing, that's a different matter, but I'm doubting it was.

Where you, and sigmadiva, bordered on, if not actually crossed into blaming the victim.

Intent isn't magic, you still did it even if it was an accident.

[Alumiyum]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

No, you said you didn't mean to. But what you previously said was:

Where you, and sigmadiva, bordered on, if not actually crossed into blaming the victim.

Intent isn't magic, you still did it even if it was an accident.

So...again, I haven't blamed the victim, nor have I ever said it was ok. Glad we're on the same page.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by Alumiyum

So...again, I haven't blamed the victim, nor have I ever said it was ok. Glad we're on the same page.

You're such a moron.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Alumiyum

So...again, I haven't blamed the victim, nor have I ever said it was ok. Glad we're on the same page.

Well, victim precipitation can border on victim blame depending on the crime and the actions of the victim.

Ranting about "common sense" and an annoying gay dude is along the lines of saying that he essentially waved his ass in the air for it to get kicked.

That isn't to say that he couldn't have been smarter to prevent dumbass fraternity men from doing dumbass stuff. But how unsmart he was is up for debate. Moreover, I don't care how dumb someone is, when you use homophobic slurs you are making it about your opinion of homosexuals rather than how annoying that particular person is.

[Alumiyum]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Well, victim precipitation can border on victim blame depending on the crime and the actions of the victim.

Ranting about "common sense" and an annoying gay dude is along the lines of saying that he essentially waved his ass in the air for it to get kicked.

That isn't to say that he couldn't have been smarter to prevent dumbass fraternity men from doing dumbass stuff. But how unsmart he was is up for debate. Moreover, I don't care how dumb someone is, when you use homophobic slurs you are making it about your opinion of homosexuals rather than how annoying that particular person is.

Personally I haven't said anything about common sense, and I've stated explicitly it isn't his fault, and assaulting someone is wrong, no matter who the victim is. They had every right to kick him out, but no right to cause physical harm. Basically, I think the homophobia is a whole separate matter. Which is, unfortunately, much harder to deal with. The fact that they felt comfortable saying these things in a public setting makes me doubt that they'll see the error of their ways.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Alumiyum

Personally I haven't said anything about common sense, and I've stated explicitly it isn't his fault, and assaulting someone is wrong, no matter who the victim is. They had every right to kick him out, but no right to cause physical harm. Basically, I think the homophobia is a whole separate matter. Which is, unfortunately, much harder to deal with.

Oh yeah you just agreed with what sigmadiva said about common sense.

So, the fraternity men were wrong in gay bashing and assaulting him. Exactly. That other stuff is blurring the issue.

[sigmadiva]

Drole and DrPhil are right - I am blaming the victim, because in my opinion he did not use very good judgment. It still does not excuse what the fraternity men did, though.

If this gay guy was just walking down the street and out of the blue these fraternity guys attacked him, for the same reason, then yes, the fraternity men are at fault.


BUT!!! This gay guy walked into a private party in a private residence, looking out of place, and it started some trouble. I'm sure this gay guy knows the fraternity culture on this campus, so I don't think he so innocent as some of you are trying to make him out to be.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by sigmadiva

BUT!!! This gay guy walked into a private party in a private residence, looking out of place, and it started some trouble. I'm sure this gay guy knows the fraternity culture on this campus, so I don't think he so innocent as some of you are trying to make him out to be.

Oh wow.