Feds to file lawsuit over Arizona immigration law

Drolefille · #1 08-02-2010, 04:17 PM

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Originally Posted by starang21

and people will villanize anyone who they want. how they want. and just because someone is villanizing them, doesn't mean they're dehumanizing them.

Society does both to illegal immigrants. Just because "people do it" doesn't make it OK.

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some of them are. but that still doesnt' mean that narcotics should be legal.

Jumping from "Drug laws have problems" to "Narcotics should be legal." is stupid. As is comparing drug laws to immigration.

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Originally Posted by preciousjeni

And best believe that undocumented residents have access to funds (and I'm not talking about drug related income). I work for a nonprofit that uses pay stubs to validate income. When you have no pay stub, you qualify for a lot. Meanwhile, some of these families are driving nicer cars than mine and carrying designer handbags. I don't fault them at all. They're just being American and, truth be told, they don't have the same liberties I do. But, wouldn't it be nice to be able to get a little of that change to pay for programs like the ones my nonprofit provides?

Exactly. The vast majority want to be a part of society here, with the rights and responsibilities that entails.

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Originally Posted by starang21

i dont have an issue with punishing companies, but i don't think the line should be any easier or shorter. these people shouldn't be put at the front. should they get put ahead of those who actually have been standing in the line?

This is why you fix the line at the same time. In some ways people who've been here for 20 years instead of being "in line" have contributed more to the US than the line standers have.

starang21 · #2 08-02-2010, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drolefille

Jumping from "Drug laws have problems" to "Narcotics should be legal." is stupid. As is comparing drug laws to immigration.

my point was that people commit crimes and break laws. that doesn't mean that the main problem is with the laws. it's about as valid as comparing speeding to immigration.

Drolefille · #3 08-02-2010, 05:10 PM

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Originally Posted by starang21

my point was that people commit crimes and break laws. that doesn't mean that the main problem is with the laws. it's about as valid as comparing speeding to immigration.

No. Really. She was drawing a contrast to show how society treats people who break different laws. Rather than making a comparison that it works one way with drugs so it must work that way with immigration.

But your comparison was more apt, perhaps, than you think. Society dehumanizes drug users, despite the fact that it's far more common and far less harmful, on the whole, than they think. But no, we have to fear the crackheads and protect the children and Just Say No. So instead of working on solving drug abuse we create reactionary laws that criminalize otherwise victimless crimes and cause their excessive financial burden, while putting the guy who smokes pot in prison with far more hardened criminals.

There's a problem with drug law. It's not deterring people from using drugs, it provides a black market here for the drug cartels to sell to, and it's costing us a lot of money.

Similarly there's a problem with our immigration law, it's not deterring people from crossing the border, it's created a black market, and continuing with harsher enforcement such as militarizing our border would cost a LOT of money.

In both cases "fixing" law would be better than doing more of the same.

starang21 · #4 08-02-2010, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drolefille

No. Really. She was drawing a contrast to show how society treats people who break different laws. Rather than making a comparison that it works one way with drugs so it must work that way with immigration.

But your comparison was more apt, perhaps, than you think. Society dehumanizes drug users, despite the fact that it's far more common and far less harmful, on the whole, than they think. But no, we have to fear the crackheads and protect the children and Just Say No. So instead of working on solving drug abuse we create reactionary laws that criminalize otherwise victimless crimes and cause their excessive financial burden, while putting the guy who smokes pot in prison with far more hardened criminals.

There's a problem with drug law. It's not deterring people from using drugs, it provides a black market here for the drug cartels to sell to, and it's costing us a lot of money.

Similarly there's a problem with our immigration law, it's not deterring people from crossing the border, it's created a black market, and continuing with harsher enforcement such as militarizing our border would cost a LOT of money.

In both cases "fixing" law would be better than doing more of the same.

nothing is going to deter people from crossing the border. as long as there are borders, folks will continue to cross is illegally. whether or not the process is easier. said "black market" will always exist because some people will attempt to circumvent the law. the problem is not with our immigration law, but with the people who circumvent it.

and i wonder if the families of drug users think that it's a victimless crime.

AOII Angel · #5 08-02-2010, 07:45 PM

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Originally Posted by starang21

nothing is going to deter people from crossing the border. as long as there are borders, folks will continue to cross is illegally. whether or not the process is easier. said "black market" will always exist because some people will attempt to circumvent the law. the problem is not with our immigration law, but with the people who circumvent it.

and i wonder if the families of drug users think that it's a victimless crime.

Hmmm....that Canadian-US border is just teaming with illegal crossings!

AGDee · #6 08-02-2010, 09:55 PM

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Originally Posted by AOII Angel

Hmmm....that Canadian-US border is just teaming with illegal crossings!

It's how the 9/11 hijackers got into the US.

AOII Angel · #7 08-02-2010, 10:09 PM

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Originally Posted by AGDee

It's how the 9/11 hijackers got into the US.

Yeah, but that's not exactly what we're talking about. Terrorists can go across any border, but Canadians aren't sneaking across our border in droves because there isn't an incentive to do so. Their economy is as good as or better than ours, they don't have oppressive poverty driving people across the border looking for jobs to feed their families.