After Several Years: What Do You Think of the New Release Figures?

[VandalSquirrel]

Originally Posted by violetpretty

I wasn't referring to academics in my discussion of depledging/withdrawls. I was thinking more of "I just don't think I fit" or "It's not worth the money" type of depledging. The people who voluntarily leave their GLOs.

Gotcha, but I still think academics affects retention and membership. If you can't bid women, initiate them, have them active, or as officers, you have issues with (wo)man power and chapter health. If people can't be involved, or lose financial aid, that has an effect.

[violetpretty]

Originally Posted by VandalSquirrel

Gotcha, but I still think academics affects retention and membership. If you can't bid women, initiate them, have them active, or as officers, you have issues with (wo)man power and chapter health. If people can't be involved, or lose financial aid, that has an effect.

I guess I didn't really think of that because my school does not have a liberal admissions policy and because our recruitment is deferred, so the people who really go crazy first semester and flunk out aren't going through recruitment. During my time as a collegian and as an adviser, I can't think of anyone who withdrew/depledged because they flunked out of school.

The other reason I though of voluntary withdrawls/depledging is because I interpretted Lane Sig's question as certain chapters experiencing higher amounts of depledging/withdrawls than others. Though, at a school with a liberal admissions policy, there will be a wide variety of GPAs and you could argue that the "popular" chapters are getting the PNMs with the higher HS GPAs and therefore, less likely to flunk out, but you still never know with just the high school GPA to go on. I'm not sure what he was getting at.

[VandalSquirrel]

Originally Posted by violetpretty

I guess I didn't really think of that because my school does not have a liberal admissions policy and because our recruitment is deferred, so the people who really go crazy first semester and flunk out aren't going through recruitment. During my time as a collegian and as an adviser, I can't think of anyone who withdrew/depledged because they flunked out of school.

The other reason I though of voluntary withdrawls/depledging is because I interpretted Lane Sig's question as certain chapters experiencing higher amounts of depledging/withdrawls than others. Though, at a school with a liberal admissions policy, there will be a wide variety of GPAs and you could argue that the "popular" chapters are getting the PNMs with the higher HS GPAs and therefore, less likely to flunk out, but you still never know with just the high school GPA to go on. I'm not sure what he was getting at.

YAY deferred recruitment!

Hopefully he will come back and tell us.

I also have thoughts about the influence of living in a dorm first year as opposed to a chapter house, and how RAs and other people who are not members can see behavior or warning signs we may not, or we may not want to deal with for whatever reason. I fully admit many sororities have issues with PR & RM when it comes to dealing with issues (alcohol for example) and that we often don't handle things until there is a huge incident. On the other hand we have a lot of over programming and requirements that don't work with today's college student and are not effective.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by violetpretty

I guess I didn't really think of that because my school does not have a liberal admissions policy and because our recruitment is deferred, so the people who really go crazy first semester and flunk out aren't going through recruitment. During my time as a collegian and as an adviser, I can't think of anyone who withdrew/depledged because they flunked out of school.

The other reason I though of voluntary withdrawls/depledging is because I interpretted Lane Sig's question as certain chapters experiencing higher amounts of depledging/withdrawls than others. Though, at a school with a liberal admissions policy, there will be a wide variety of GPAs and you could argue that the "popular" chapters are getting the PNMs with the higher HS GPAs and therefore, less likely to flunk out, but you still never know with just the high school GPA to go on. I'm not sure what he was getting at.

It could be the emphasis on filling your bid card without an equal emphasis on NOT listing a chapter that you would NOT want to join. That explains a lot of the bid day/first week no-shows and drops. Whether that's an issue of the NMs not fitting in or NMs wanting to be in a "higher tier" chapter is uncertain. My level of disgust for the "tier" system is high though so I may be biased.

I'd say that if it further along during the NM period that people are dropping then it's an issue of retention and the chapter should be looking at what they're doing wrong.

[violetpretty]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

It could be the emphasis on filling your bid card without an equal emphasis on NOT listing a chapter that you would NOT want to join. That explains a lot of the bid day/first week no-shows and drops. Whether that's an issue of the NMs not fitting in or NMs wanting to be in a "higher tier" chapter is uncertain. My level of disgust for the "tier" system is high though so I may be biased.

I'd say that if it further along during the NM period that people are dropping then it's an issue of retention and the chapter should be looking at what they're doing wrong.

Well, same, but I won't pretend like it doesn't matter to some people.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by violetpretty

Well, same, but I won't pretend like it doesn't matter to some people.

I know it does, I just want to slap them upside the head until they realise how stupid and counterproductive it is. (Oh but it's ok because we're top tier. *slap* No *slap* it's *slap not. *slap*)

It hurts Greeks as a whole to perpetuate the idea that some of us are better than others, just as it hurts us to claim we're superior to the great un-washed Non-Greek masses. And it's something that the chapters AND the PNMs need education on.

The worst part is, that someone, upon reading this would say that I'm only jealous and miss the point entirely.

/meh sorry, pet-peeve

[violetpretty]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

I know it does, I just want to slap them upside the head until they realise how stupid and counterproductive it is. (Oh but it's ok because we're top tier. *slap* No *slap* it's *slap not. *slap*)

It hurts Greeks as a whole to perpetuate the idea that some of us are better than others, just as it hurts us to claim we're superior to the great un-washed Non-Greek masses. And it's something that the chapters AND the PNMs need education on.

The worst part is, that someone, upon reading this would say that I'm only jealous and miss the point entirely.

/meh sorry, pet-peeve

Not just the sororities and PNMs, but the fraternities as well. I think fraternities are the ones who decide "tiers", and they decide based on looks. It's sad, because there are plenty of chapters who would cut a PNM who has the personal qualities (GPA, activities, commitment level, personality) they are looking for but is overweight/unattractive/a lesbian/etc--- things that MEN find undesirable---because they don't want to be labeled the fat/ugly/lesbo sorority.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by violetpretty

Not just the sororities and PNMs, but the fraternities as well. I think fraternities are the ones who decide "tiers", and they decide based on looks. It's sad, because there are plenty of chapters who would cut a PNM who has the personal qualities (GPA, activities, commitment level, personality) they are looking for but is overweight/unattractive/a lesbian/etc--- things that MEN find undesirable---because they don't want to be labeled the fat/ugly/lesbo sorority.

At the very least the fraternities encourage and continue it. But the chapters themselves perpetuate it because even if they say they know it's silly, they really enjoy being on top. There's a lot here about how our society expects women to please men in looks and actions and how women are complicit and socialized into the sexism. But that's another thread. (Or a lifetime's work.)

[carnation]

Originally Posted by violetpretty

Not just the sororities and PNMs, but the fraternities as well. I think fraternities are the ones who decide "tiers", and they decide based on looks. It's sad, because there are plenty of chapters who would cut a PNM who has the personal qualities (GPA, activities, commitment level, personality) they are looking for but is overweight/unattractive/a lesbian/etc--- things that MEN find undesirable---because they don't want to be labeled the fat/ugly/lesbo sorority.

Yep.

[Splash]

I appreciated the comment that getting cut from top chapters early on and not being strung along allows PNM's to give other chapters a chance and be won over by them. This is a good thing. However what RFM prevents is allowing some of the top chapters from giving some of the PNM's another chance to win them over.

[LaneSig]

Originally Posted by violetpretty

The other reason I though of voluntary withdrawls/depledging is because I interpretted Lane Sig's question as certain chapters experiencing higher amounts of depledging/withdrawls than others. I'm not sure what he was getting at.

This is what I was primarily referring to; the voluntary withdrawls/depledging.

Example with changes in names: Southern State University's Alpha Beta sorority chapter is on a big campus with a competitive rush. All the other chapters begin rush with 150+ girls. Alpha Beta begins rush with +/- 60 girls. Before RMF, Alpha Beta never made quota. In the last couple of years, someone posts how all the chapters at SSU made quota (which is a good thing). However, when the spring grade report rolls around, all of the other sororities have 200+/- members, and AB, which should have 100 +/- members, still has about 60.

I guess I'm asking is if RMF is truly working, wouldn't AB be building their chapter instead of remaining the same.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by LaneSig

This is what I was primarily referring to; the voluntary withdrawls/depledging.

Example with changes in names: Southern State University's Alpha Beta sorority chapter is on a big campus with a competitive rush. All the other chapters begin rush with 150+ girls. Alpha Beta begins rush with +/- 60 girls. Before RMF, Alpha Beta never made quota. In the last couple of years, someone posts how all the chapters at SSU made quota (which is a good thing). However, when the spring grade report rolls around, all of the other sororities have 200+/- members, and AB, which should have 100 +/- members, still has about 60.

I guess I'm asking is if RMF is truly working, wouldn't AB be building their chapter instead of remaining the same.

I think it depends on when the depledging happens for us to be able to judge. But RMF is primarily aimed at achieving quota I think and doesn't address the other related issues. (So it solved one problem and revealed another perhaps)